tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post6666198881742132507..comments2024-03-23T00:46:27.084+02:00Comments on Egyptian Chronicles: Our Revolution's biggest enemy : StupidityZeinobiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12290387395565291310noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-10076701163287212882011-04-13T13:04:56.345+02:002011-04-13T13:04:56.345+02:00@anonymous
You are right as "accept" ha...@anonymous<br /><br />You are right as "accept" has not to be taken in a passive sense. Indeed, everybody must participate, question, monitor and when mandatory denounce inappropriate behaviour from others or the army. <br /><br />However, each revolution is a process of transformation from an ancient state of affairs to a new one, hopefully better. <br /><br />Dangers for a revolution is 1, chaos, if the transition is not managed and here come the Egyptian army (as transitional regulator) and 2, radicalization (remember the French Revolution of 1789) which is just replacing a tyranny by another one, even more fearsome. <br /><br />This is why I'm recommending some patience and even forgiveness.<br /><br />Melmelajaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-40826613610678263912011-04-12T13:10:44.834+02:002011-04-12T13:10:44.834+02:00What on earth are you talking about? your observat...What on earth are you talking about? your observation above goes like this:<br /><br />"ACCEPT in the mean time your army as a NOT TOO BAD if not optimal garant of order before organized political parties can present a coherent program Egyptian citizens could adhere to." <br /><br />How can you just accept? you have to supervise, monitor and question the army then reach agreement with the army as to how the army should conduct itself in a true democratic spirit not just ACCEPT its current role. Democracy is about a dialog. Beside how do you make sure you get organized political parties that can present coherent programs on the citizens behalf if you do not make it plain that the citizens will participate in every aspect with freedom of expression without fear, including in the creation of these parties manifestos, then monitor not just ACCEPT. The various Egyptian parties do not exist in a form reflecting the reform aspirations of the masses now. Corruption by the elite is rife, the army stood still when Egyptians were been killed in Tahrir, and now they cannot accept criticism in a so called democracy, and more they are now shooting at the citizens, how can you just ACCEPT? you have to get involved in the debate then agree to a strict agenda to follow through.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-68272966404990546892011-04-11T23:32:48.028+02:002011-04-11T23:32:48.028+02:00Hello,
Those are turbulent times and, indeed, in ...Hello,<br /><br />Those are turbulent times and, indeed, in many ways your revolution has just started. <br /><br />Out of the many plagues humanity has to face there are two every democracy must be very aware of. First is corruption which is endemic even in reputed stable old democracies (e.g. through the process of substitution of the interests of the people by private interests endorsed by lobbies as exemplified by the western democraties across Europe and the U.S. case). <br />The second plague is the all too human habit to structure a social group in a pyramidal hierarchy and the ensuring struggle for power. <br /><br />The legitimate means to alleviate those plagues is more transparency and a very well planned constitution provisioning for potential abuses. <br /><br />It takes time and very bright people for making an enduring constitution. I think you should concentrate on this and accept in the mean time your army as a not too bad if not optimal garant of order before organized political parties can present a coherent program Egyptian citizens could adhere to. <br /><br />Of course Mubarak should be judged for his crimes when ruling the country but consider that many of his suitors are the generals and subservant officiers still in place in the army. Those people have to be given a chance to be recycled otherwise, out of fear and greed they will unite behind a new tyran. So, please, don't be merciless and have some patience, a patience most useful in the preparation of your new constitution.<br /><br />Peace, Mel (melajara@yahoo.com)melajaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-58541981794085827712011-04-11T11:48:40.947+02:002011-04-11T11:48:40.947+02:00Where peaceful protesters were assembled, demandin...Where peaceful protesters were assembled, demanding the departure of the nation’s ruler, who they say is a tyrant. The soldiers fired bullets into the crowd and beat the protesters, dragging some away into trucks going to unknown destinations. Protesters courageously remain in the square, however, and are repeating their demands.Atlanta Roofinghttp://www.yelp.com/biz/atlanta-roofing-resources-atlantanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-58078184148265111152011-04-11T02:00:04.334+02:002011-04-11T02:00:04.334+02:00This blog is entirely rubbish
The referendum wasn...This blog is entirely rubbish<br /><br />The referendum wasn't free or democratic. If people are manipulated to vote in a certain way then it wasn't democratic, if activists who tru to campaign for a NO vite get intimitaded and terrorised- and you know exactly what I mean and what happened -then it wasn't a fair referendum. If referendum's date is pushed ahead instead of time previously planned especially so activists don't have time to educate people then it wasn't free. If religion is used to push people to vote YES otherwise they become infidels then it certainly wasn't democratic.<br /><br />It's not 30 years of Mubarak dictatorship, it's 60 years of Military dictatorship disguised in a civil-state-charade. We haven't changed anything.<br /><br />You have to get this in your head, the army is not the divine, it's not beyond questioning or accountability and when it comes to corruption the military establishment is the worst and you know that very well.. as for that bullshit 'powerful businessmen and what they can do', more powerful than the army? what fucking rubiish is that?? besides, they aren't doing anything as you brainwashed simpletons seem to believe state-tv all over again. Thos "powerful" businessmen are 2 types.... the big ones are protected by the army itself because they have freaking deals with army businesses and you know exactly what I mean or should I upload documents and blow it all up but ofcourse you will not publish my comment if I expose your beloved army links with the biggest corrupted businessmen! the second type are small fat cats, those are not doing anything either and are too scared to attract attention or come in the spotlight and quietly sending their money abroad.<br /><br />wake up and grow up and see the reality as it is instead of sugar-coating it and making excuses for the army.FUAFUFAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-81494451319405024122011-04-10T21:26:45.301+02:002011-04-10T21:26:45.301+02:00Hi Zeinobia, I'm one of those radicals whom yo...Hi Zeinobia, I'm one of those radicals whom you don't like very much. I'm watching from the US in awe of what is happening in your ancient, sacred country and, like billions around the world, have been inspired by the daring and resolve of the Egyptian protesters. I've even written about it (Google Counterrevolution 101 if you are interested). I'm writing to tell you how much I like your blog, and to tell all Egyptian revolutionaries, the radical and conservative alike, that around the world there are people who love you and are following closely your struggles. You are not alone; your fight is our fight. Best wishes to our brothers and sisters in Egypt, and, inshAllah, may you succeed. In solidarity.Dave Fryetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15160400168754119982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-86019259583743153682011-04-10T20:24:03.443+02:002011-04-10T20:24:03.443+02:00Zeinab,
I think that the army has been playing fo...Zeinab,<br /><br />I think that the army has been playing for time since all this started.<br /><br />If the MB win the elction i can see the army staging a proper coup. They would be in Benjamins' and hillary's good books for having stopped the creation of an islamic state no matter how many people they may kill.<br /><br />I don't trust the army and i think egypt is between a rock and a hard place ie a military dictatorship or a state run by mislim brotherhood.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />RiccardoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-23244257099806879102011-04-10T19:35:36.674+02:002011-04-10T19:35:36.674+02:00Both you and Sandmonkey figure that the protesters...Both you and Sandmonkey figure that the protesters acted not in their best interests. Concede that at this time it is hard to know who are your enemies and who are your friends - so you have to be loyal to ideals. One of these ideals is that it is as wrong to torture people you dislike and distrust as it is people you like and trust - and if these AWOL soldiers are not being detained or tortured, that would also be important info.<br /><br />And as we say in the west, a week is a long time in politics. <br /><br />“kanaafa .@Sandmonkey nobody has the guerrilla outlook - it's all head-on or that's enough. And that is because no strategy”<br /><br />That is because people were saying that they were glad that Football/Soccer was over because they saw sports and politics as distinct entities rather than two entities which use the same strategies, like Canadians do. Trying to draw a penalty works the same way in the world of politics as it does in the world of hockey. When the goalie carves up the rightwinger’s family jewels when the ref is not looking and the rightwinger ends up in the penalty box because he retaliates, the goalie’s team plays with a man advantage.<br /><br />Even when talking about Libya, Bouchard (who is in charge of the NATO mission) said “stepping up to the plate” (a baseball analogy) in his latest interview and “a coach doesn’t show you his play book” in his previous interview.<br /><br />“But now, we have other options: we can protest, we can pressure, we can organize & win elections & write the rules of the game.”<br /><br />It is a balancing act between playing the game and changing the game.<br /><br />“Now, u want a real assessment of strengths? You know why the ARMY is lying & doing this shit? Because its scared shitless of you!”<br /><br />Yes and no. Any effort to push the Army out more quickly increases the odds of maintaining the status quo – which suits the Army just fine. They are trying to piss you guys off so that you take the bait, that the elections happen even sooner – and people who will let them do what they want are more apt to get power because they are better organized. The Army is playing hockey – your team just got a five minute major, so lets see how good their power play is – and let’s please score a short-handed goal!<br /><br />The West is good at having strategies for when the politician looks like he is down for the count – but most take a lot of money for PR to be effective. Whether it is a Teflon John or a Teflon Jean or a Teflon Juan – there are politicians facing a series of scandals but it looks like nothing is sticking to them. Eventually something sticks, though, but, with term limits, they will probably be gone before it does.Lucettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767663352401358423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-45777895011484936102011-04-10T18:02:30.772+02:002011-04-10T18:02:30.772+02:00The reader-provided link is to this Dec. 15, 2010 ...The reader-provided link is to this Dec. 15, 2010 Slate article: <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2278044/" rel="nofollow">Egypt's Command Economy<br />A WikiLeaks cable shows how the regime has bought off the military.</a> First paragraph: "<em>CAIRO—The lavish headquarters of Egypt's Ministry of Military Production is a far cry from the rundown buildings that surround it in central Cairo. From the golden handrails of the sweeping central staircase to the ministry's fancy custom-made drink coasters—the place is awash with cash...</em>"Jasonhttp://elnaschiewatch.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-1737518714987775812011-04-10T16:44:32.490+02:002011-04-10T16:44:32.490+02:00Revolution is a process of change and not a single...Revolution is a process of change and not a single event. This process requires a vision and the ability to navigate between the present we reject the future we want. In this process, wisdom & maturity should be coupled with the ability to compromise. You compromise in the means in order to reach the ultimate objective.<br /><br />It was un-wise to get military officers entangled with the events in Tahrir. This is a political infancy by those who are ignorant about the rules of the military system. A fine line has been crossed. Yet, mistakes do happen which is the only way to get lessons learned and apply a correction.<br /><br />I think there is a potential to benefit from this stumble more than the price paid. This depends on the change and correction you apply on your team, the military team will take care of themselves. Army is not angles (there is a lot in their closet), yet it is the only institution available to lead the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-24144940233379744372011-04-10T15:26:54.188+02:002011-04-10T15:26:54.188+02:00http://www.slate.com/id/2278044/http://www.slate.com/id/2278044/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-58189720497103944012011-04-10T14:24:36.859+02:002011-04-10T14:24:36.859+02:00Haha!
First rule of Project Mayhem is....Haha!<br /><br />First rule of Project Mayhem is....stupidpeoplearestupidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-1660871846134127582011-04-10T12:11:21.048+02:002011-04-10T12:11:21.048+02:00I don't understand why everyone is making a bi...I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal for, I really don't think that the army is collapsing as you say. I think the whole thing was an internal issue in the army and small-minded people got dragged into it, its the soldiers fault for asking protection from civilians.<br /> If the army can't control is supposedly well-disciplined minions then that's their problem not ours. Yes! the army is the as a corrupt institution as any another in Egypt but their all we have now, but I still think that the armed forces don't know shit about politics and should hand power to a civilian council constituting of people well-know and respected and can be agreed on, like Assam Sharif. <br /><br />I think now the time has come(actually 2 weeks ago)to lay down the placards and start thinking about the future. If they spend less time as they do thinking about what they're gonna name a Friday and more time campaigning, well we might actually have a chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-14412526678603724122011-04-10T11:13:59.368+02:002011-04-10T11:13:59.368+02:00Zeinobia,
While I don't always agree with ever...Zeinobia,<br />While I don't always agree with every point, I greatly admire how boldly and clearly you write. Thank you for everything you do.<br />M.M. Lynx Qualeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-66670404545870068722011-04-10T10:23:16.890+02:002011-04-10T10:23:16.890+02:00SAFC is not acting stupid, they are implementing e...SAFC is not acting stupid, they are implementing everything in the interests of the nation!<br /><br />EVERYTHING in Egypt is undergoing reform and upheaval, the only thing stable is the ARMED FORCES. Any citizen who uses this dangerous period in time to start attacking and discrediting the army is committing high TREASON.AHMDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-70863410957318645932011-04-10T10:03:59.358+02:002011-04-10T10:03:59.358+02:00I agree that too many people took those infamous v...I agree that too many people took those infamous videos of the "army officers" ("army heroes") at face value and didn't consider the very dangerous implications.<br /><br />The inconsistent and sometimes mysterious actions and decisions of the AFC have created a fertile soil for suspicions and it's very possible that malicious forces are taking advantage of this.<br /><br />The AFC is simply not qualified to deal with complex political realities, especially at a sensitive time like this. They need to take advantage of those among the revolutionaries who have offered so many times to cooperate with them in formulating plans and decisions. <br /><br />The AFC could at least use them as a sounding board rather than deciding matters in closed rooms and issuing draconian orders and decrees.<br /><br />Above all, we need more transparency and two-way communication on POLITICAL matters.<br /><br />The revolutionaries' loyalty is to Egypt and so far that has made them loyal to its army. The AFC's actions are making it easy for those who question whether the two loyalties are consistent.Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-46675617384485238382011-04-10T09:04:53.464+02:002011-04-10T09:04:53.464+02:00the revolution has just began . The US and Israel ...the revolution has just began . The US and Israel are trying to derail it . The army still uses the time trying to find the Mubarak alternative person that will follow the Mubarak policies. So why are you surprised ?<br />Everything is going according to plan ..<br />Look what happened in Libya, what are trying to do in Syria ..<br />There is revolution .. but there is counter revolution also.<br />When you see Hillary visiting a place .. you must expect troubles .. and she has visited Egypt .. right ?arpakolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09597895802280600637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-58743378096981498362011-04-10T04:07:52.027+02:002011-04-10T04:07:52.027+02:00You wrapped it up so well. I am more on your side ...You wrapped it up so well. I am more on your side of the argument, and the only note I would like to leave is that Habib Al-Adly, caught at 00:00 a.m., had a phone interview earlier that day with the same Al-Masry Al-Youm denying he was accused of anything. So, Ibrahim Kamel is on his way to prison, Adly style :))<br /><br />By the way, my parents here are taking the side of the Army to end a sit in. I think my parents aren't the only ones who would pity the loss of a soul but find a sit-in unjustifiable.Radwa ElShamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079769057848725823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-47681588400075888662011-04-10T02:42:55.862+02:002011-04-10T02:42:55.862+02:00Some excellent points. The army made many mistakes...Some excellent points. The army made many mistakes in how it responded, but this whole incident was entirely avoidable and unnecessary. While I share many of the protester's complaints, they lost my backing once when they goaded the army into a pointless confrontation.<br />The army made no attempt to remove the protesters until they camped out in Tahrir beyond the curfew. With this, the generals have been consistent since day one, and protesters could expect it, even without their attempts to get army officers to mutiny.<br />Incidentally, from a vantage point over Tahrir, it was clear that the police/army were initially trying to remove the protesters without using excessive force (no tear gas, shots fired over their heads only). The protesters raised the stakes when they started tossing bottles, rocks and molotov cocktails. Shouting "selmiya!" after doesn't make sense.<br />Those who stayed in Tahrir that night should accept responsibility for their actions. Too bad they're at it again tonight.<br />FYI- I was with you in Tahrir Jan 28, and voted NoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-14880568565470002932011-04-10T02:22:15.642+02:002011-04-10T02:22:15.642+02:00Thank you Zeinobia . good article i agree 100% , i...Thank you Zeinobia . good article i agree 100% , i hope we all take a long breath and think a bit about the whole situation specially some of our young activists who did not understand the danger of the call of some officers on facebook and on the internet to protest with their uniforms , i have to say i have been so worried about it when i saw those videos and saw how many felt sympathy with the officers without even thinking the danger of a move like that , i hope we can think and reach a solution also i hope we all can learn from that specially the military councilAldoradiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-41426320231373572492011-04-10T02:14:47.742+02:002011-04-10T02:14:47.742+02:00@z
Like the Egyptian media, you speak out of fear ...@z<br />Like the Egyptian media, you speak out of fear of the army which gave rise to three tyrant presidents.<br />The army's job is to protect its people and not to shoot at them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-2457494207809755292011-04-10T01:28:43.784+02:002011-04-10T01:28:43.784+02:00Really a lot of good points made to think about. B...Really a lot of good points made to think about. But taking time to think does not seem the motto of the day for many. Though only that can help Egypt from drowning in chaos. You've spoken open and frank. And I fear both sides won't like it. But they have to take up with it. If they would think about what you said, both sides could come to their senses. Then perhaps there would be a good chance to manage all this somehow after all. Let's hope for the best.jonamoremhttp://jonamorem.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com