tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post7872554621171011813..comments2024-03-18T13:13:41.444+02:00Comments on Egyptian Chronicles: First They Came For The … "Updated"Zeinobiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12290387395565291310noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-35817102036456792902013-09-24T04:03:48.753+02:002013-09-24T04:03:48.753+02:00Moral of the story here is that you, a white forei...Moral of the story here is that you, a white foreigner with no relation to the region, has no place to dictate what amount of religion the natives should or shouldn't have in their politics. Like I said before, you seem to think you occupy more space than you actually do. And your ramblings about ikhwan and islamism are indicative of your orientalism and racism. Of course this isn't about Egyptians at the end of the day, it's just about your savior complex. Sorry, but nice try.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-65592003488518099302013-09-11T13:27:16.352+02:002013-09-11T13:27:16.352+02:00I agree. However, if Egyptians did not learn some ...I agree. However, if Egyptians did not learn some thing from their disastrous experience with the el-Ikhwan el-Mugrimeen (which should be declared as a terrorist group) then I have no hope for the future in Egypt. <br /><br />The moral of the story here is never mix religion with politics Luke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-43827776174293028432013-09-10T18:31:55.972+02:002013-09-10T18:31:55.972+02:00Much is ad hoc but the more problematic policies m...Much is ad hoc but the more problematic policies might be more accurately described as having been designed with certain scenarios foreseen in advance, like envisioning potential chess moves. Yet the intended reaction to these scenarios is not positive as it helps the wrong forces to gain strength. <br /> <br />I maintain that the examples given in the earlier reply, though lengthy, bear similarities to the kind of climate that certain forces are working to try to create and show precedents for the patter, whatever it may be called. <br /><br />Seems that there is some room for cautious optimism about the constitution, though. Some potential appears to exist that liberty rather than the false kind of security will be focused on. <br /><br />I posted the reply that starts with “Quick version then” but not the following one. Orange Ketchuphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11147889868883061979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-18145626973756809932013-09-10T13:37:03.123+02:002013-09-10T13:37:03.123+02:00Anonymous who seems to have a fragile ego wrote
...Anonymous who seems to have a fragile ego wrote <br /><br />>we"? You seem to believe that you occupy more space than you actually do, Lukey boy. Still doesn't give any more weight to your pseudo-intellectual and orientalist ramblings on religion though. You might get the hang of it eventually<br /><br />I read this as you really have no answer and this is what ad hoc response is all about<br /><br />Now do you get it? Luke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-56516615672898448902013-09-10T13:34:48.818+02:002013-09-10T13:34:48.818+02:00Anonymous wrote
>Quick version then:
Thank G...Anonymous wrote<br /><br />>Quick version then: <br /><br />Thank God<br /><br />>There are still some in positions of considerable influence and power that refuse to employ any kind of self-reflection as to why the security situation is problematic. They keep wanting to push policies that have in the past been seen to deterioriate (sic) security rather than increase it. However, this very deterioration is then used as a rationale to tighten the original repressive policies further. That is a deliberately created cycle. <br /><br />No this is in Latin ad hoc (look this one up) but this speaks volumes for the quality of the present leadership in Egypt which is not good <br /><br />Now do you get it? <br /><br />And sure state terrorism in the long term is more dangerous than terrorism committed by the likes of the terrorist Assem Abd el-Maged so you make a good point hereLuke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-11404219558876057322013-09-10T05:20:16.545+02:002013-09-10T05:20:16.545+02:00"we"? You seem to believe that you occup..."we"? You seem to believe that you occupy more space than you actually do, Lukey boy. Still doesn't give any more weight to your pseudo-intellectual and orientalist ramblings on religion though. You might get the hang of it eventuallyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-4543994618166463152013-09-10T03:37:58.169+02:002013-09-10T03:37:58.169+02:00Quick version then:
There are still some in pos...Quick version then: <br /><br />There are still some in positions of considerable influence and power that refuse to employ any kind of self-reflection as to why the security situation is problematic. They keep wanting to push policies that have in the past been seen to deterioriate security rather than increase it. However, this very deterioration is then used as a rationale to tighten the original repressive policies further. That is a deliberately created cycle. <br /><br />Circle reasoning involves using a conclusion or premise to "prove" arguments in favor of the conclusion. By disingenously trying to heat up security threats beyond their normal form (in this case, the conclusion), they proceed to argue that accepting high levels of collateral damage and implementing arbitrary and irregular judicial procedures is a must (the arguments which pertain to the conclusion which, incidentally, can encourage militancy).<br /><br />Perhaps it doesn't perfectly fit how the phrase is used by philsophers and logicians but the tactic clearly exists. Many governments do employ such techniques to deliberate create a climate of panic among their citizenry. <br /><br />It is not necessary to accept enormous amounts of collateral damage to tackle the challenge of terrorism. And it definitely is not good to use the issue of terrorism as a means of restricting labor activism. <br /><br />My main original point, regardless of whether those phrases fit or not, is that some actions have recently been taken which at best replace the danger of non-state terrorism with a form of dangerous threat emanating from the state itself. Basically, the arrests mentioned in the blog post are cases of that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-41238343706604736342013-09-09T20:40:35.508+02:002013-09-09T20:40:35.508+02:00Anonymous: all i did is I explained to you what ci...Anonymous: all i did is I explained to you what circular reasoning and cause and effect really mean and I did ask you to restate what you wanted to say because you did not make any sense so we mortals can understand what you are trying to say and all we readers got is a long winded answer that got us mortals no where so i would say to you:<br /><br />Wa minkum nastafeed<br /><br />I rest my caseLuke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-48875756224920266492013-09-09T19:21:33.987+02:002013-09-09T19:21:33.987+02:00Part II:
Whether religion is useful or useless ...Part II: <br /><br />Whether religion is useful or useless does not change the fact that modern military and especially intelligence establishments have, to a great extent, became pawns and tools in the con game for enriching particular elites.<br /><br />Religious fanaticism and stone age militarism are simply closely related manifestations of the same general mentality. If you believe the charges against Haitham Mohamadein, you can be made to believe anything. The two aspects of this mentality often overlap. A great many of these military and “intelligence” leaders are themselves religious fanatics. <br /><br />The idea that violence can be a tool of progress is a fantasy. <br /><br />Conformist worship of militarism based on “patriotism” is even more pathetic than extreme religious fanaticism. <br /><br />It is not the case that the Revolutionary Socialist movement is a clandestine ally of the MB. <br /><br />It is not the case that those who want to keep a backwards army out of politics and judicial proceedings must invariably like the MB. <br /><br />Arguing that any critic of these developments is a religionist is akin to a fundamentalist claiming that everyone outside of his sect is a not a member of his religion.<br /><br />It is basically the fundamentalist religious mentality transferred to a secular cause. We have, of course, seen so many times where that leads. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-57642632176182287652013-09-09T19:20:44.815+02:002013-09-09T19:20:44.815+02:00Going to have to split this reply into two parts. ...Going to have to split this reply into two parts. Part 1:<br /><br />That isn’t fixing it; it is just shifting to another topic. The circular reasoning of militarist and dictatorial scam artists is to inflame a given problem and then to step in as the supposed solution to that problem. It is circular reasoning since the rhetoric of such individuals assumes that the only solution to the problem is found in those who do everything possible to sustain and perpetuate the existence of the issue. They continuously argue that policies which worsen the problem must never be abandoned because to do so allegedly will allow the problem to expand unchecked. <br /><br />Patriotic and nationalist fairy tales and conspiracy theories are another staple of such behavior. Funnily, many who have moved out of religion will buy into patriotism, nationalism, or militarism. <br /> <br />Some examples of autocrats, military true believers, and even politicians in democratic states selling themselves and their policies and being permanently necessary to maintain in the face of some boogie man.<br /><br />I will start with the most recent and sickening:<br /> <br />1. Egypt: “Haitham Mohamadein is a terrorist, a lover of the Muslim Brotherhood, a foreign agent of the communist USA (LOL – can religion match that?), a secret conspirator of the Judeo-Muslim alliance against Egypt to perpetuate Zionism, Judaism, Islam, and Americanism.” <br /><br />To those who believe that Haitham Mohamadein deserves arrest: grow up. The charges against him are like a litany of ideas put forward by people that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. <br /> <br />“Elbaradei is a secret member of the Muslim Brotherhood. He could not possibly have objected to the August massacres out of a belief that violence begets violence because those at the sit-ins are terrorists, evil, and condemned to hell. He was sent by the USA, Germany, and others to divide Egypt and promote the secession other various provinces.” <br /><br />Never mind the fact that Elbaradei clearly has a long record of being one of the MB’s most vocal critics. Never mind the fact that he clearly does not hate his country and has had a history of supporting the revolution. <br /><br />2. North Korea: Invade South Korea, establish a militarized totalitarian system, constantly provoke other states, and then proceed to use the internal tension to claim: <br /><br />“If you don’t support the glorious Dear Leader and the Party, your traitorous actions will enable the evil capitalists to destroy the country! Honest citizens have a duty to accept and endorse the gulags, as well as the utter absence of any semblance of civil liberties.” <br /><br />3. The invasion of Iraq: <br /><br />“We must invade Iraq. Saddam Hussein’s WMD poses an intolerable threat to world peace.” -> Invasion, followed by insurgency and upswing in terrorist recruitment. <br /><br />“We must maintain military forces in Iraq. Cut and run, surrender, and retreat will all embolden the terrorists! You want them to win?!?” <br /><br />4. Snowden/NSA issue: <br />-> The actions of the NSA are increasingly exposed, it is increasingly revealed that an effort to establish a system of massive, unconstitutional global surveillance has been underway for many years, and Snowden flees to Hong Kong and then to Russia. <br /><br />“The NSA wasn’t spying on Americans! Don’t believe the evidence proving that it did! Other countries do it too! Snowden committed treason, loves Russia, loves Venezuela, loves Cuba!”<br /><br />5. Obama’s origins: <br />“Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. He is a Manchurian candidate tasked with tearing out the core of the United States.” It is hilarious that some in Egypt actually believe that the people who peddle that idea somehow like them. The reality: those who argue Obama is a Muslim absolutely despise Egypt and hate most people in the region, be they Muslim or atheist. It is not logical to imbibe their junk and act like it is somehow helpful to Egypt or to liberal Muslims. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-71576750401842078252013-09-09T12:50:16.873+02:002013-09-09T12:50:16.873+02:00So do you support terrorists yousf that killed pol...So do you support terrorists yousf that killed policemen and military recruits? A yes or no answer would do Luke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-45201221153426035082013-09-09T12:47:21.397+02:002013-09-09T12:47:21.397+02:00Ahmad who really has nothing better to say wrote
...Ahmad who really has nothing better to say wrote<br /><br />>I don't know where you get your info from<br /><br />What "info" (sic)? Oh that Morsi is a liar and a terrorist and a criminal? or is it that Neimuller was very correct? Now you tell me as in proving me wrong<br /><br />>but I believe you are a total baka.<br /><br />I read this as you either cannot prove me wrong or you have no clue about what i really meant right? so which one is it? you tell me<br /><br />And what is a total baka? I'm just curious <br /><br />For the readers: Neimuller eternal words are very true that we all have to stand up for evil and case in point in the terrorist Assem abd el-Maged and his gang of el-ikhwan el-mugrimeen (I do not call them the Muslim Brotherhood any more because they have nothing to do with Islam) that are terrorizing the Copts of Delga this is what you need to do Ahmad Luke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-88306605885915560422013-09-09T03:20:19.898+02:002013-09-09T03:20:19.898+02:00I don't know where you get your info from but ...I don't know where you get your info from but I believe you are a total baka.<br /><br />Ahmad Abo Bakrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06649193989181219786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-55603892130211208812013-09-08T19:03:05.965+02:002013-09-08T19:03:05.965+02:00Let me fix what you are saying; circular reasoning...Let me fix what you are saying; circular reasoning really means as an example: the Bible and the Qur'an say that God is one therefore God must be one because the Bible and the Qur'an say so and now you have the circle<br /><br />Cause and effect really means: I have streptococci bacteria in my throat (cause) and therefore I have sore throat (effect)<br /><br />Now would you like to tell us again what you wanted to say? Luke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-50832689426743779702013-09-08T14:49:47.022+02:002013-09-08T14:49:47.022+02:00Where did I hear this words before?!
Ah, this was...Where did I hear this words before?! <br />Ah, this was pro-coup slaves in syria, iraq, ...<br />Yousfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-70693059550865317202013-09-08T14:22:17.100+02:002013-09-08T14:22:17.100+02:00Pastor Neimuller was very correct that if we do no...Pastor Neimuller was very correct that if we do not stand up against evil then evil will come and get us and indeed in the case of the MB they went after the Jews and their properties and remember the 1952 Cairo fire? and now they are trying to get rid of the Egyptian Church and the Copts and who will me next? let me help you it would be the Shia then the Sufis and then women and guess who will be next? Moderate, liberal and secular Muslims <br /><br />And when the MB is done with all these groups they will turn against each other<br /><br />Morsi was a liar a terrorist and criminal and he had to go<br /><br />So what is the way out? Egypt must have a man made constitution and not a 7th century constitution that will enshrine equality of all Egyptians believers and non believers, men and women and allows every one to have his day in court and get religion 100% out of politics. There should be an effective police force and justice system to protect every Egyptian and until this happens do not expect that the military will not go after even youLuke Theonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067491197043331910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-56762250032330835612013-09-08T04:24:42.637+02:002013-09-08T04:24:42.637+02:00So, how are the current policies supposed to be en...So, how are the current policies supposed to be enhancing security? It seems that the threat of violence from both state terrorism and al Qaida style attacks are as bad as ever for recent years. The more “security” is used as a catch-all to halt and reverse everything else, the less security their actually appears to be. Perhaps this is because some of those in power are using circular reasoning as to the relation between cause and effect. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-89453519900091328352013-09-08T02:14:53.852+02:002013-09-08T02:14:53.852+02:00When so many soldiers are dying every day fighting...When so many soldiers are dying every day fighting for our daily freedoms, and the armed forces are the only shield defending us all patriots must support them. Those attacking them publically are nothing but fifth columnists and traitors.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-91529869396324424012013-09-08T01:21:59.916+02:002013-09-08T01:21:59.916+02:00I think the way things appear to go , Zeinobia you...I think the way things appear to go , Zeinobia you should be very careful. The quote of Neimoller might not be that far fetched If they are going after true brave people like Nawara, I think we are going into a very dark tunnel. As much as I hate the MB and any faction that talks in the name of God, will the time come when I regret that I supported the ousting of Morsi ? I wonder.khalednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8003335.post-38208562120317064812013-09-07T18:41:23.981+02:002013-09-07T18:41:23.981+02:00It seems highly probable that Haitham Mohamadein w...It seems highly probable that Haitham Mohamadein was arrested to stop him from helping the Suez Steel workers in their strikes and ongoing issues. <br /><br />The interim gov and the military are making a serious mistake by disregarding Egypt's history of strikes and labor activisim in causing political change. Recall 2008 and 2011. <br /><br />Probably also some don't like the way the RS have challenged the graven image known as al-Sisi. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com