Wednesday, September 28, 2005

The Coptic convention in the Congress

Just from half an hour Cairo Local time Mona El-Shazely's 10'o'clock finished after discussing a very important topic ,The Conditions of Egyptian Christians Copts as after few days There will be the second Coptic Convention and guess where it will be oh yes in the American Congress itself
and guess what more Adaly Basha Abdir is asking for an independent state for Copts in Upper Egypt 'the South'
not that only but he wants the UN ,the international Community and before them of Course the United States of America intervation !!!!!!! Just like Bosnia
I won't comment on this man illusions
I will comment about the show tonight , the guests were a Catholic Priest very important one he seemed but I didn't get his name
Gamal Asad whom I respect very much since he talked about the elections and the Church
A muslim writer in Al-ahram who really didn't give much to the show 'after all he works in the Al-ahram
I won't talk much but Asad and the father there
in the bottom line there are problems the Copts are facing but it mustn't to be discussed abroad in the Congress so it can be a pressure card used by the Americans against Egypt
another thing and that what I believe the Copts won't take their rights except when the Muslims take their rights .When all treated equally as Egyptians in the first place ,when there is real democracy
This convention is danger and I know one thing if the American troops put their shoes on the soil of Egypt just for the protection of minorities and all this fancy talk ,the Copts before the Muslims will fight against them
just now I remember a story about Equity , Democracy and Islam, Amr ibn Elas took a piece of land to build on it the Mosque 'the first one in Egypt' ,he bought it from a Christian lady whom he fooled and gave less price
the lady was angry and decided to go to El-madina to complain to Omar ibn Khateb ,and so she did when Omar knew what happened he called for Amr and was so angry from him in front of her,he apologized to the lady ,gave her the real value of the land
end of the story


  1. How did the Catholic priest look like? Was he in black with a beard or in Grey with no beard?

    He may be Yohanna Qolta, but I'm not sure.

    I regret very much that you respect Gamal Assad. Although every human being deserves respect for being a human, my guessing is that you have a very partial idea about this person. You need to learn more about his history.

    As for Adly Abadir's requests, this is too surprising. He never talked about something like that. He used to be the least controversial among European and American Coptic activists and he was the funny guy trying to run for president.
    It would be interesting to read his website, I'll go there and try to sort out what the hell is this "independent thing". My guessing is that it is a maneuvre or a political game before the parliamentary elections, as a response maybe to numbers like these.

    Bottom line: I bet he is playing a political game to get more parliamentary seats for Copts. It's a shame that any of these things should be done.

  2. Zeinab..

    Now that I'm watching the program (I found it linked here),
    I am so surprised at the claims!!

    In this very program, Michael Meunir, the guy who is co-chairing this conference has denied any demands of "a Coptic nation" and he also said that they are not asking the UN to intervene, but they are asking Egypt to comply with the universal human rights.

    The presenter insisted on interrupting him and on pushing her own thoughts about Adly Abadir (who is a very old man by the way).

    The bottom line, although I have never been a fan of M. Meunir (you can consider me as opposed to him), I was impressed. This is the second time I hear him on a tape and his speech is much better than what has been reported about him. He strongly emphasized that the convention is backed by Christian and Muslim members and that it is pro-human rights of all Egyptians.
    Anyway, I think everybody should see that tape and judge.

  3. I think the whole program is good, although it is a bit biased against the US Coptic association.
    I liked it and I linked it here

    I think the third guy, Dr. Mohammed El-Sayed Said did very well. Yohanna Qolta was a bit embarassed.

    Thanks for the info.

  4. Well I didn’t watch the program yet; I will watch now from the link that Ramy had posted it. So I will not comment on it except after watching it.
    I will just express my feelings about that issue although I am sure it may upset a lot of people.
    First, about the independent state for Coptic the only thing that can be written on it is what you had said “It is illusions” and no one can accept it. We are all Egyptian and of us want a united state and all of us should have equal rights and duties. Even for Coptic extreme wing, they will not accept it, as this idea is not applicable economically, geographically or politically. So it is nonsense.
    Second, We have to admit that Copts are facing problems and these problems should be solved. You have said it shouldn’t be solved in the congress abroad but you didn’t give any other solution for these problems and this sentence had been repeated for many years and no action had been taken ever.
    Let us first see what are these problems. They are all about equal rights and duties:
    1. The Egyptian ID that states the religion on it, a thing that I am ashamed even to say we are in the 2005 and you still have religion on it, I am not sure that there is another state in the whole world that have such a shameful ID that separate between the Egyptians according to religion, it resembles Rwanda’s ID which states Hutu or Tutsi and they used these ID to identify their victims from the other group to kill them (an extreme example just to emphasis how bad and immature is this ID) and this ID is used to separate between Egyptian in jobs and many aspects of life when the ID is required. And the government know this quite well and no body had changed it although I know when the National number had been applied, they said they will do it without religion but then they said no because we are conservative society and we don’t want to mix between Christian and Muslims in marriage and birth, as if no Muslims and Christians are living together around the whole world and no country is applying these kinds of ID to control marriages and birth records. So whom should we ask for solving this kind of problem when the government is giving a blind eye on it and don’t want to change it for more than 30 years!!!!!!!
    2. The law governing building of the churches (El nizam el hamony) that law that is differentiating between building a church and a mosque, a law that had been applied for more than 1000 years. Separating between Egyptians in building their worship places. For 1000 years the government didn’t make a move to change it although all the church heads had asked to change this unfair law but no one is answering. Should we wait for another 1000 years to change it!!!!!!!!!!!
    3. The article number two in the Egyptian Constitution states clearly that Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic its official language and Islamic jurisprudence is the principal source of legislation.Which means that all laws that is applied on the christians are from the Islamic jurisprudence a religion that is not his religion and which also means unequal rights. Although it may not affect our life that deep but it is an article in our constituation and give Copts the feelings that this isnot your country(a very bad feelings) and no body even have the courage just to discuss getting rid of this article and it is almost 30 years old.And it seems that it will not be in the agenda of any Egyptian government for another 100 years.So we can wait for this step another 100 years to discuss
    These are our problems and the government and whole Egyptians know it and those problems are there for years and years without any change and I think they are simple human rights that doesn’t need any negotiation to solve it, but the government is not trying to solve it or even to discuss it (formally within the People assembly) .So why after all these years we can’t look for external help, we are not asking for military support. And as you said if the American troops entered Egypt, Copts and Muslims will fight them together as we had done before to the British and French troops. But we are asking for diplomatic support. And we are minority asking for help because according to the laws that I stated within our problems we are not full citizens, unfortunately!!!!!!!!!!
    Sorry that my comment is so long and I will watch the program now. And thank you that you opened such a topic for discussion

  5. I watched the program, they said nothing new, Copts are having problems and it has to be solved within Egypt with no external help. But how this can occur, they didn’t say anything.
    And about the Independent state for Copts, they said Adly Abadir said that and they didn’t say where or when he had said it, and Michael Mounir denied that at all. And for me I am not sure of it and actually I don’t know Abadir at all to know what is his political thinking but if he really said that, he is crazy.
    N.B El khat el hamony is only 150 years not more than 1000 years as I wrote in my last comment. I meant more than 100 years not 1000.

  6. I am sad to see that the koptics in egypt sometimes put the blame on us for losing some of their rights forgetting that we don't have any of our rights :(

    I hate saying koptics even, we are egyptians and we are all not having our rights, what will they say when they know that sometimes praying in a specific mosque may be enought reason to be arrested!!! that is injustice of course and I dare to say, it is much worse from what they are claiming, with all respect and sympathy to their claims

    I believe that they are divided between two parties now, the first believes they have worse conditions and that they need help, this part is so much in a discrimination idea and honestly , i met so many of this party, the second party I am honored to know some of them, understands that we need eachother to gain our rights as egyptians, no more talk about muslim and christian

    zainab, I am hurt, and as much as the gab gets larger as much as we lose the hope to gain our freedom

  7. it must be some steps against USA coptic organisation thoughts in egypt

  8. They already took some measurements against them , you don't hear them as before , the media attention is less , don't forget the United States is wise ,it shifted the policy now to the Muslim brotherhood to the majority


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