Tuesday, December 14, 2010

Cablegate And Egypt : Mubarak’s Profile

Update : For some reason this post does not look right in Firefox
According to Wikileaks  there are 4000 cables originating from the U.S embassy in Cairo , only 9 of them have been released so far. The latest cable released was a media sensational worldwide “Mubarak , president for life”. Some of you have read about it or have read it fully still it is never too late to discuss here.
This cable is a profile for Mubarak through the eyes of the American diplomats in the U.S embassy in Cairo. All embassies are required to do so in the world , to gather information and make these profiles about politicians in the host country so the decision makers back home can understand how to deal with that country. There is no doubt that we will find a twin cable with Sadat profile in mid 1970s
The secret cable was sent on May 19th , 2009 to the staff of the state secretary as Mubarak had requested to meet with President Obama. Mubarak had not visited Washington as he used annually since 2004. Scobey was presenting the old man of the Mideast to the New president and his staff. Mubarak and his staff were encouraged with the new administration reaction and thought it was the time to return the annual tradition which Scobey highly encouraged as :
The Egyptians want the visit to demonstrate that Egypt remains America’s “indispensible Arab ally,” and that bilateral tensions have abated.
Obama should understand that fact unlike Bush where new powers in the region began to rise in his time like Qatar.
President Mubarak is the proud leader of a proud nation.
It is good to know that we are still regarded as a proud nation.

He draws heavily from his own long experience in regional politics and governance as he assesses new proposals and recommendations for change.
Well for sure it is a long experience , after all he has been ruling for 29 years now since President Reagan !!
Mubarak is 81 years old and in reasonably good health; his most notable problem is a hearing deficit in his left ear.
That was sent before his big surgery. We know about his left ear from a long time , it was noticeable.
He responds well to respect for Egypt and for his position, but is not swayed by personal flattery.
Is not swayed by personal flattery !!?? So what is that we see in our mainstream media day and night !!??
Mubarak peppers his observations with anecdotes that demonstrate both his long experience and his sense of humor.
We know that too.
During his 28 year tenure, he survived at least three assassination attempts, maintained peace with Israel, weathered two wars in Iraq and post-2003 regional instability, intermittent economic downturns, and a manageable but chronic internal terrorist threat.
Of course as he has been ruling for nearly 3 decades !! Some people are surprised that Scobey was speaking about at least three assassination attempts Mubarak survived, well do not be surprised but I knew that Mubarak has survived no fewer than 6 assassination attempts according to the BBC country profile !! Officially Mubarak survived two assassination attempts : Sadat assassination and that attempt in Ethiopia “real attempts , that incident in Port Said does not count as it was not real”
He is a tried and true realist, innately cautious and conservative, and has little time for idealistic goals.
After 29 years of his rule I can say that he is conservative in keeping the chair and money , he is more of reactive than a true realist. True leaders who want to be remembered in the history must have idealistic and visionary goals for their nation while being realistic seizing opportunities … original realists do not wait for 29 years and then promise the people with new leap in the coming 5 years when they are over 82 years old !!
Mubarak viewed President Bush (43) as naive
Even Mubarak considered Bush JR as naïve !!
On several occasions Mubarak has lamented the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the downfall of Saddam. He routinely notes that Egypt did not like Saddam and does not mourn him, but at least he held the country together and countered Iran.
I think this part proves the innocence of Mubarak from what Bush claimed in his autobiography.
Mubarak continues to state that in his view Iraq needs a “tough, strong military officer who is fair” as leader. This telling observation, we believe, describes Mubarak’s own view of himself as someone who is tough but fair, who ensures the basic needs of his people.
The just dictator theory again , I find the Scobey and her diplomats’ explanation to his view interesting because accordingly Mubarak knows that he is a dictator who just ensures the basic needs of his people even if he is speaking subconsciously. The coming paragraph is interesting because it speaks how Mubarak reacts when the Americans speak about democratic reforms in Egypt.
He can harken back to the Shah of Iran: the U.S. encouraged him to accept reforms, only to watch the country fall into the hands of revolutionary religious extremists. Wherever he has seen these U.S. efforts, he can point to the chaos and loss of stability that ensued. In addition to Iraq, he also reminds us that he warned against Palestinian elections in 2006 that brought Hamas (Iran) to his doorstep. Now, we understand he fears that Pakistan is on the brink of falling into the hands of the Taliban, and he puts some of the blame on U.S. insistence on steps that ultimately weakened Musharraf.
Democracy in the Islamic World means chaos for Mubarak , well Scobey should have summarized paragraph in few words “ Mubarak is using the Muslim extremists bogyman  to scare us from what the democracy can bring to the chair”. Does he know about the Turks and AKP !!?
The next line is about Sudan and I wonder if our Sudanese friends can help us in explaining this !!?
While he knows that Bashir in Sudan has made multiple major mistakes, he cannot work to support his removal from power
So the Americans want to remove Bashir but Mubarak is standing against this !!?? It is very interesting because I have always thought that Bashir was doing a big favor for the Americans and all those who want to harm Sudan and Egypt with his crimes. Now Sudan is on the verge of splitting in to several countries not only two thanks to his policies. Also I have not understood yet why Mubarak supports Bashir that much to the level of lobbying against the ICC in Africa despite that that is the same man who gave refugee to those allegedly tried to assassinate him in Ethiopia !!?? Does Mubarak know that any other man will much worse than Bashir !!?
Mubarak has no single confidante or advisor who can truly speak for him,and he has prevented any of his main advisors from operating outside their strictly circumscribed spheres of power.
What about Zakaria Azmi !!? Ok Azmi is not his advisor , sorry for that mistake. What about Omar Soliman !!?? Anyhow that paragraph also confirms something I heard and read about Mubarak that he does not listen to one person only or speak through one person only. The alleged fight over the throne between Soliman and Gamal is a sign , his alleged refusal to the succession plan ..etc. It is a bless and curse at the same time for any president actually , it is a curse more in Mubarak’s case because there is no direct reason why he got rid from an advisor called Osama El-Baz.
And what is really insulting to Mubarak in the cable , up till  now nothing is considered insulting but that will change :
Defense Minister Tantawi keeps the Armed Forces appearing reasonably sharp and the officers satisfied with their perks and privileges, and Mubarak does not appear concerned that these forces are not well prepared to face 21st century external threats.
Ok there is nothing about the first part , Mubarak is keeping the army satisfied with couple of privileges “clubs, resorts and discounts” for fear some crazy officer leads a Coup d'état but the new is that “our Egyptian forces are not well prepared to face 21st century external threats !!” Well may be it is not new because many people expected this but again if we are not prepared to face 21st why we spend that big amount on money on weapons. According to that cable our army is not ready for 21st war !!
Next you will find a small but summarized description for Mubarak regime and the role of his men in controlling the country.
EGIS Chief Omar Soliman and Interior Minister al Adly keep the domestic beasts at bay, and Mubarak is not one to lose sleep over their tactics. Gamal Mubarak and a handful of economic ministers have input on economic and trade matters, but Mubarak will likely resist further economic reform if he views it as potentially harmful to public order and stability. Dr. Zakaria Azmi and a few other senior NDP leaders manage the parliament and public politics.
Should not Omar Soliman be busy keeping the external beats at sea !!?? This is another blow to Omar Soliman whose supporters portrayed him as an angel who does not interfere in local politics unlike the bad Habib Al-Adly. This claim from the American embassy makes you wonder on the role of the EGIS in the last 13 years of Omar Soliman’s leadership. “Again Soliman has served as the head of the EGIS more than any other Spy chief in the history of Egypt since the founding the apparatus in early 1950s”
Mubarak is a classic Egyptian secularist who hates religious extremism and interference in politics.
Mubarak is not a classic Secularist !! He is a classic regime man who was raised upon the hate of anyone with popularity in the street.
Mubarak, seeks to avoid conflict and spare his people from the violence he predicts would emerge from unleashed personal and civil liberties. In Mubarak,s mind, it is far better to let a few individuals suffer than risk chaos for society as a whole.
Well guess what the majority of the country is currently suffering !!
Mrs. Mubarak has been given a great deal of room to maneuver to advance women’s and children’s rights and to confront some traditional practices that have been championed by the Islamists, such as FGM, child labor, and restrictive personal status laws.
This was the first mention for Susan Mubarak in the cables. The conservatives in Egypt will use this paragraph to attack the laws against FGM , child labor and personal status laws thanks to the “maneuver” !! Anyhow we are back to the first lady’s husband and son again.
The next presidential elections are scheduled for 2011, and if Mubarak is still alive it is likely he will run again, and, inevitably, win.
I did not stop at the part that he will run again or win but I stopped at “If Mubarak is still alive” , the Americans are also aware that he can die at any moment leaving Egypt to the unknown and that he meant when he said that he would rule till the last breathe.
no one in Egypt has any certainty about who will eventually succeed Mubarak nor under what circumstances.
Mubarak’s ideal of a strong but fair leader would seem to discount GamalMubarak to some degree, given Gamal’s lack of military experience, and may explain Mubarak’s hands off approach to the succession question.
And this is why the father does not welcome the succession.
The following part in description to Egypt under the Mubarak rule from 1982 to 2009 :
However, economic problems have frustrated many Egyptians. Egypt’s per capita GDP was on par with South Korea’s 30 years ago; today it is comparable to Indonesia’s. There were bread riots in 2008 for the first time since 1977.
We know that bitter sad fact.
Economic reform momentum has slowed and high GDP growth rates of recent years have failed to lift Egypt’s lower classes out of poverty. High inflation, coupled with the impact of the global recession, has resulted in an increase in extreme poverty, job losses, a growing budget deficit and projected 2009 GDP growth of 3.5% - half last year’s rate.
I want to see Ahmed Ezz standing against Scobey and telling her that she is a liar !!The following paragraph deals with the US aid to Egypt , Scobey believes it should be directed to the education. The following section deals with Mubarak’s regional policies.
It was great to see that the Americans admit that we paid from our position as leading force in the Pan Arabism force due because of the peace with Israel and following the American directives.
For example, during the 2006 Lebanon war, the Bush Administration asked Egypt to side against Hizballah; at the same time Egyptian protestors demanded the peace treaty with Israel be vacated. The Egyptians were frozen, and relegated to waiting for the situation to stabilize.
Interestingly enough Mubarak seemed to be harmed from the direct talks between the Palestinians and Israelis as he was no longer the mediator.
At the outset of the Abbas era, Egypt,s role was unclear as the Israelisand Palestinians communicated directly, and Mubarak for a time was left with no deliverable either to the West or his public.
Coming next the intr-Arab conflicts , team “Egypt&KSA” Vs. team “Syria&Qatar”. Mubarak blamed the invasion of Iraq for the increasing Iranian influence and he believes a confrontation through isolation will be the perfect to weaken Tahran. The Sudanese issue comes next.
Egypt views the stability and unity of Sudan as essential to its national security because of concern over its access to Nile waters and the potential for increased Sudanese refugee flows. The GOE is using development assistance in South Sudan to encourage unity.
Yet we are back to Qatar again :
Here too, the Egyptians are jealous and sensitive to the Qatari foray into resolving Darfur, a crisis squarely in Egypt’s backyard.
and final what Mubarak would talk about with President Obama :
  • Israeli Arab peace :
He will press for concrete action on settlements and resist Arab gestures to Israel until the Arabs can see whether or not Netanyahu is credible.
  • Sudan
He will highlight Egypt’s role as provider of humanitarian and military assistance, and stress the need to maintain stability.
  • Intra-Arab strife “Our dirty laundry”
He may criticize Qatar, and perhaps Syria, as Iranian surrogates.
  • Iraq
He may be circumspect, but harbors continuing doubts about Maliki and his Iranian ties.
I do not think that that cable was too explosive , on the contrary if you read it twice you will find it portrays Mubarak in a positive way despite being a third world president who has been in rule for 30 years.
You can check the previous cables related to Egypt :


  1. Thanks for the summary. Many new cables from Egypt were released today.

  2. There is no lost love between Mubarak and Bashir bt they both need one another. Bashit needs Mubarak to keep the West at bay from meddling in internal politics. Mubarak needs Bashir for a united stance in the Nile-sharing treaty against other riparian countries.

    I don't believe the part about the Egyptians being jealous from the Qatari role in the Darfur peace talks is true. The ambassador might have got that impression by mistake or maybe it was intended to make her feel that way..if anything, Egyptian officials are fglad for that role if it keeps Darfur part of Sudan, it's a load off and any Egyptian role will not be welcomed there as they are not regarded as honest brokers by Darfuri separatists. The Qataris would not tread there without an Egyptian approval or at least not with their objection.. in any case they will have to inform the Egyptians of any breakthroughs and keep them up-to-date.
    When it comes to Palestinian issue, Egyptians have made it very clear that no Arab involvement will be tolerated in the Hmaas/fatah talks. Hamas is a senstive issue to Mubarak himself and h is more than eager to see them toppled in Gaza, perhaps even more than isreallys.

    Mubarak is a classic shithead..

  3. OK.

    The puppet-master in Sudan between 1989-2000 was Dr Hassan Al-Turabi a maverick Islamic ideologue.

    The grand puppet..was Bashir.

    All that happened in Sudan between 1989-2000 went through Dr Turabi - including the attempt on Mubarak's life *and* a 1993 Agreement with Ethiopia on the equitable sharing of the Blue Nile and Atbara Rivers *and* Sudan's vote in favour of the 1997 UN Watercourses Convention...

    Dr Turabi would like to see Egypt without Mubarak.

    FYI Dr Turabi is not part of the Muslim Brotherhood as some Egyptian claim, wanting to take 'all' credit for all things in the region - whereas a faction of the Islamic movement in Sudan was inspired by Al-Banna and Qutb, Sudan had its own Islamist history in the Mahdiyya and the decision to 'not' use the MB label so as not to 'confuse' distinct movements was made at around Sudan's independence...

    The first and second democratically elected civilian governments in Sudan took steps to re-negotiate the 1929 Agreement and refused to sign the 1959 Agreement on Nasser's terms and complained to the Security Council about Egypt's plans to illegally militarily annex Halayeb...

    Prior to Bashir when Al-Imam Al-Sadiq Al-Mahdi was the democratically elected Prime Minister - relations with Egypt were 'dismal' and if you want to know why - read up on all of the comments Sudanese commentators have been posting on this blog... Al-Imam Al-Sadiq broke new ground when he conducted an official visit to Iran which was even more isolated back then than it is today...

    Most notably Sudan felt that it was being taken for granted and interfered with by Egypt during its moments of weakness...

  4. Mubarak dislikes Al-Mahdi and his followers more than Bashir with whom he supposedly made up after the complete side-lining of Turabi in 2000...

    Bashir signed the controversial 4 Freedoms Law with Mubarak - reciprocal freedom of movement (without visas), ownership of land, employment and residence...

    Bashir also oversaw the largest land-lease in the world - to foreign companies including Egyptian ones, for the production of food.

    Bashir also oversaw a stronger coordination of Sudan's position with Egypt against Sudan's neighbouring upstream States - against popular will in Sudan - and whilst balancing excellent, mutually beneficial relations between Sudan and Ethiopia.

    Bashir also oversaw the longest and most dramatic period of economic development in Sudan, powered by the export of oil.

    Bashir oversaw the Comprehensive Peace Agreement with Dr Garang - which died with Dr Garang's strange 'death' - we want wikileaks cables on that!!!!

    So in spite of the assassination attempt, as long as Bashir keeps Turabi at bay, he is, according to Mubarak, the best man for Egypt's interests.

    That being the case, there is still a certain level of mutual distrust...
    Sudan (unrealistically) expected Egypt to go all out and oppose the EU and US on the ICC...
    This is part of the reason why Khartoum is keen on Qatar as a mediator as they see Qatar as having no vital interest that might compromise its mediation.
    The Qataris have bent over backwards to improve relations between Sudan and the US to the extent of procuring a lobbyist, that Congressional hawks bullied into refusing to represent Sudan! Egypt has said that it would help Sudan restructure its debts / improve relations but as you can imagine it was all empty rhetoric...

    Zeinobia please do some reading about Sudan before saying that Sudan can split into several countries!

    The South is distinct and the struggle of the Southern people is distinct.

    The East and West are too intermeshed with the North to separate and they have not demanded this.

    The conflict in Darfur has been hijacked by powers seeking to topple the government in Khartoum - but that is another matter.

    A democratically elected government in Khartoum would be challenged on the 4 Freedoms and would be pressured to make the popular decision and sign the New Nile Basin Cooperative Framework Agreement.

    Does this mean that you now also support Bashir..?

  5. Afticanist: Although Mubarak still holds all the strings, it's no secret there's an internal power struggle[it rarely emerges on the surface] but everybody knows it exists, there is a power struggle between the military establishment and the NDP and another struggle between civil establishments[like judiciary, opposition etc] and the government and a struggle within the NDP itself. The army knows that the need for a successor with a military background is no longer essential or justifiable- unlike during Sadat or Nasser eras where the country was at war or for Mubarak when the peace treaty was still fresh and needed someone to see it through to the end. Now things are different and the political scene has changed dramatically and the army knows that and that makes them worried and restless and Mubarak junior knows it and it plays for his own advantage in that he wasn't concieved in the army's bossom and those few albeit very influential businessmen who stand by him- who push for a civilian head within the NDP. This is a major concern for the army. sOme anaylsts speculate that a deal will have to be struck between the army and the neo NDPians to bring Gamal to the center stage.. this could be true but I don't believe this will be accepted by power-ambitious Sillyman and his associates, other top officiers like Tantawi may accept to be in the shadows or play a sideshow role as long as they are guranteed to keep their perks and have a decisive say in whatever concerns the militray but other generals will not be satisfied with a civilian as head-of-state.

    Amidst this unstable and changing political scene; and with Bashir as president.. someone who has his own problems- although I don't think he's the least bit concerned about any ICC ruling- and in a country with a very vibrant and arm-bearing opposition] he needs the Egyptian regime that he will not be willing to upset Mubarak by bringing any Sudanese issues or concerns like Halyeb/refugee treatment etc etc to the limelight when holding talks with Egyptian officials. Any push from civil societies in Sudan tp raise those issues on the Egyptian scene will have a limited effect if any and will be regarded as low-priority especially amidst the local politics issues which are the major concern for opposition, government and army alike. Even Nile concerns[water sharing treaties/Ethiopia threats] isn't on the top list right now.

    Your concerns and protest about media stereotyping or regarding racism practices' which are no doubt valid but unless your own government makes it its own interest, and brings it to the attention to those in Cairo; I'm afraid not much will change. Civil complaints may cause a little kerfuffle but it won't fetch real results for better understanding and respect between the 2 nations. That's why I don't really give much importance to racist innuendos in films because they are just a symptom and not the actual problem.. media in most cases reflects society itself, although I do understand your feelings and sympathise with Sudanese infuriated by suck depictions. Let alone major issues like Halyeb, those need proper governments and heads of states with a little bit of common sense who can truly tackle such sensitive issues and reach resolutions. Mubarak and Bashir are not such men, neither are their appointed ministers and advisors
    You see the conundrum, Bashir or someone following his steps will not place Sudanese interests first if it upsets the Egyptian leadership. The current Egyptian leadership will not address Sudanese concerns as serious matters that needs immediate dialogue. Civil society and opposition are too engaged in local affairs to give much regard to Sudanese relations and honestly even if they do, there isnt really much they can do as the government will not allow any NGOs involvement in a sensitive diplomatic issue like Sudan relations. Both regimes must be changed prior to any real constuctive dialogue that reflects the needs and concerns of both people.

  6. @Z "Update : For some reason this post does not look right in Firefox"

    It's not right in IE8 either, though the problems are different. In Firefox the headline font is a wide sans serif, (perhaps Futura or Century Gothic) but in IE8 it's a 1950s brush style, much nicer.

    On the other hand IE8 totally fails to render the yellow background boxes! No yellow to be found. The pink extends everywhere.

    Also in IE8 the normal text is typewriter style rather than sans serif as in Firefox.

    Too bad because when your blog is displaying the way you designed it it's classy and elegant.

  7. Dudu

    I agree with everything you've said.

    It's refreshing to finally engage with someone who has the intellectual breadth to see things from the other perspective.

    What you've said about Halayeb is poignant - especially in light of the rank defensiveness we've come across here by people who claim to care about human rights and human dignity and who abhor the use of force and the might is right mentality...

    Halayeb is President Mubarak's biggest strategic mistake in his dealings with Sudan, and will continue to haunt relations until and unless the deplorable status quo is reversed.

    Since 2000 Bashir has being trying to co-opt Egypt and Mubarak accepted this, before 2000 during Turabi's years Sudan's ideologically based foreign policy wanted to change the regime ruling Cairo!

    Bashir feels that he was 'duped' by the international community and that Two-Face the super-villain - Qaddafi was gearing up to destabilise Sudan once more - the Darfur rebels got support, weapons and sanctuary from a coordinated Libyan-Sudan Peoples' Liberation Army program....
    Bashir therefore needed Egypt's support and went out of his way to accommodate Egyptian interests - but Egypt is weak - Sadat threatened Libya in defence of Sudan on numerous occasions but that was a different Egypt...
    When Bashir felt that Egypt's leadership would not antagonise its western benefactors he somewhat retreated from his positions and flagged the Halayeb issue - also to shore up popular support in light of the elections - as the opposition and civil society have been talking about Halayeb, particularly since the Eastern Sudan Peace Agreement in 2006...

    Even though personally he might not give two hoots about the ICC arrest warrant, I'm sure the ruling party in Khartoum is worried about what happens post South Sudan secession, when the US will have 'no reason' to be nice to Khartoum as Khartoum will have nothing to offer it...

    All the previous promises have turned out to be lies - things like debt relief, which Khartoum qualifies for, membership of the World Trade Organisation, of which Egypt is a member, lifting of the US economic sanctions, which every US President since Clinton approves and removing Sudan from the State sponsors of terror list, which North Korea was removed from!!!

    On the other hand Khartoum has many cards in its hands re: the South - it can make it easy for the new State to become viable (oil refineries, pipelines), which is win-win situation for all or it can make this very difficult.

  8. I think Mubarak's beef with Turabi wasn't merely because of the attempt on his life, although the perpetrators did arrive from Sudan, there is no proof that they were supported or armed/trained by Turabi or Sudanese regime.. a report issued by Egyptian intelligence[sillyman] said that 2 were of 'Arab Nationality' without indicating which nationality, if they were Sudanese, they wouldn't feel shy about declaring this but that is a proof of having no proof, no proper documents regarding their 'Arab nationality'. Till thi day there are no proven links between the Gamaat Islamia and the Sudanese regime itself although they probably had support from Sudanese nationals who facilitated their stay and travel but that doesn't mean that Sudanese officials actually conspired or were part of this attempt.. if that were true, the attempt would probably succedded as they would have been provided with better arms, explosives and no doubt better planning.

    The Turabi would like Mubarak to go but that's because he is a wise man, a visionary whp understands that this shithead has to go if Sudan can aspire for proper sovereignty not just physically on its soil like in Halyeb but in decision making as well. Mubarak foresaw Turabi as an enemy right from the beginning and years before Adis Ababa. Turabi presents a proper and functional Islamic alternative to secular regimes,nonetheless it might be good for Sudan but doesn't necessarily mean it will be ideal for Egypt. There is no direct relation between Muslim Brotherhood and Turabi's Mahdy-root idelogy, they might share similar viisons on some issues but they aren't a carbon copy.. that is a lie spread by the Egyptian regime for the west not for local politics. Mubarak is very worried about islamic regimes in neighbouring countries. A functioning Islamic regime in Sudan poses a threat to the MB scarecrow he loves to terrify the west with.

    interesting interview
    [please use google translate-I tried to post English translation but link is very long]

    Don't get me started on Ghadaffi, I could go on forever :D. Ghaddaffi is mental with so much free time on his hands, he got the entire country under his thumb, he has no worries, no real threats to his rule and with no principles and unlimited resources, he enjoys messing with his neighbours purely for leisure. He supports whatever side that isn't in power regardless of ideology and sometimes for no fathomable reason he will just pull out and stand with the other side. That's why I call him 'matto a luna', he is unpredictable nor understandable.. he belongs in a madhouse.

    here's an article about racism from another perspective, a Brit of Ghanaian descent who is married to an Egyptian and had to relocate to Cairo
    it's a good read for both Sudanese and Egyptians alike

  9. Turabi is an enigma - he is much more respected outside Sudan than he is in Sudan, he is a shameless ruthless pragmatist who clothes himself in intellectual Islamist garb, he is anything but wise.

    I've read the interview - please don't believe anything he says.

    On Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya two years ago he blames the assassination attempt on Bashir and said he didn't know anything about it and said that the perpetrators were assassinated themselves in Ethiopia as a cover-up...

    He has no credibility.

    A Sudanese human rights expert studied Turabi's visions of Islamic governance and came to the conclusion that...Islamic governance according to Turabi was Islamic governance implemented by Turabi - with no discernible parameters...

    During the brutal years of the civil war when forced conscription was the norm (none of Turabi's sons signed up to the fight for the cause - at least one of Bashir's brothers fought and lost his life) Turabi said that those who fought and lost their lives for the government's cause were martyrs, he even attended 'wedding ceremonies' forced upon grieving families who had just just lost their sons - to 'wed' the sons who were in heaven to 7ooreeyaat... - I kid you not.

    As soon as he was side-lined from power, Turabi said the war with Garang was no longer jihad...I kid you not.

    Turabi's experience in power bears testament to his personal failure in instituting a proper Islamic alternative in Sudan!

    His years were the harshest and most horrific police state years in Sudan's history and the damage that was done to society as a whole persists and we are still traumatised.

    And his experience has been disastrous to the cohesiveness of the country - why on earth would his system of governance be plausible in Sudan and not in Egypt - Sudan is even 'more' diverse than Egypt!

    A huge part of the Darfur conflict is Turabi's doing, he vowed to get back at Bashir through the use of the armed Justice and Equality Movement which is both Islamist and lead by his disciples (some of whom used to staff Ministerial posts during his decade as the puppet master) - and they found sanctuary and support...in Libya.

    But the general premise that Mubarak reviles Turabi due to his classical secularist convictions is true.

    That being the case, the leaders of Sudan's traditional parties also seek their legitimacy islamically - the great grandson of the Mahdi and the scion of East Africa's saint Al-Imam Al-Mirghani...no wonder the Southerners could never see themselves in Sudan's leadership...

    Even after the side-lining of Turabi, the ruling party in Khartoum is nominally Islamist, which makes the ties nurtured by Mubarak and Bashir even more strange and difficult to fathom...

    And I have met and spoken to many Egyptians who link Sudan's Islamists to the MB in their convictions that Egypt is the alpha and the omega.
    One even said that Egypt was the lantern that radiated civilisation to Sudan...he couldn't offer any examples when I pressed him to do so...

    Nice article on racism.
    I know the author.

    The issue is not the existence of non-existence of racism in Egypt - racism exists in varying degrees in all societies - the issue is how racism is dealt with by people who should know better in societies.

    And in the case of the Sudan, that the racism is shrouded by slogans of airy-fairy brotherhood just adds insult to injury.

    That some Egyptians can find this to be acceptable is beyond me:


  10. any person who describes any of those ruling MENA with words such as wise is an idiot, none of them are good and none of them are serving their ppls interests.

  11. Thank you Africanist for informing me about the truenature of Turabi, I obviously dont know him, mostly read articles and watched interviews on telly ARD and Jazeera, he seemed very cool-headed, persuasive und down to earth, I actually liked him a lot especially that I tend to sympathise with Islamiste.. I didn't realise he was a hypocrite and a wolf in sheepskin.

    That video is quite stupid, I din't even know if it's meant to insult Sudanese or Algerians cause the video is derogatory to Sudanese while the audio is about Algerians..or maybe both

    And thanks to you mr. anonymous for calling me an idiot that is precisely why I refrain from those commentaries. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not Sudanese so I am very likely to have wrong assumptions about the guy or maybe I'm Sudanese and I support him, right?.. no need to imply that I'm an idiot

  12. Africanist, can you post links to stupid Amr adeeb talking about Sudan cause I'Ve never seen them and when I search youtube there's an awful lot of qahirayoum today videos, I can't find the right ones and I really want to see what this guy has said. thanks

  13. and Hala Sidqey too, I understand she said sometimg about Sudan not qualified to host the match?-dudu

  14. @dudu: sorry didnt mean to insult you and my point had nothing to do w nationalities.
    I just wish we all be more realistic about the bad position we, as in the citizens- of these countries are in. Our countries arent run by us and in reality we have weak effect on how they are run and despite having vast resources and loads of young ppl we are lagging behind. Do you think if any of these countries had real visionary figures who cared for the ppl we would be in such bad conditions?!

  15. Anonymous - FYI:
    Sudan isn't technically in MENA - it's not geo-politically part of the Middle East - it's a central nation in East Africa and this includes both the North and the South.

    dudu - sorry but I'm not going to spend any time searching for anything to do with that oaf on youtube - check out 'numerous' previous posts, particularly his telephone conversations with the despicable Muhammad Fuad.

  16. @Africanist: we all knw that, fact remains its one of several countries not doing well despite the vast resources, this is true regardless of which label u love to stick on it.

  17. It's not about sticking labels - it's about correct or factually incorrect categorisation - Sudan is not in the Middle East and you implied that it was.

  18. dudu:

    Hala Sidky said 'Sudan eh - AlSudan laban wu tamrahindi' and that Sudan was not fit for hosting a 'birthday party' let alone a football match.

  19. I'm so proud to know that the 'relationship' between Bashir and Mubarak has its detractors in Sudan and that Bashir still has to take 'people power' into account - thank God the last Higher Committee meeting between the two countries was indefinitely postponed.

    In the words of the late, great Imam AbdelRahman Al-Mahdi - 'Sudan for the Sudanese' - read...and learn:

    Egypt's takeover of Sudan's Gezira Scheme
    Professor Ali AbdAllah Ali


    As a side-note it's ironic that President Mubarak will counsel the leaders of North and South Sudan in Khartoum on building a cooperative relationship as he did not manage to do that with either side!


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