In pre-July 23rd 1952 coup Egyptians were not allowed in at certain clubs in their own country , in their own land because these clubs were for foreigners , specifically Europeans.
And in July 2012 Egyptians are not allowed in to at certain resorts because they are for foreigners only in the Red sea !! “Arabic”
Here is a video clip filmed from two days ago in Makadi Bay , at Grand Makadi resort where Egyptians are not allowed in except of course as workers !! Ironically Egyptian Mr. Hani who filmed this clip and had this conversation with the security was not going to stay there but rather to visit his German friend who was staying there !!
Of course after a huge scandal on Social Network and reporting the matter to the police , The Grand Makadi resort apologized to Mr. Hani and even offer him a week in the hotel , nothing bad like bad publicility.
According to twitter friends recently Grand Makadi applied this discriminatory policy against Egyptians. Anyhow it is not only the Grand Makadi resort that applies that disgusting policy , other resorts in Red , Matrouh and Siwa !!!
I do not understand how the ministry of tourism is begging Egyptians to support domestic tourism when Egyptians are treated like that !! Is not it enough many Egyptians prefer to travel to Lebanon or Turkey because it is much cheaper than a week in Sharm El Sheikh or Red sea !!?
This is discrimination and despite I know that these resorts think that they do not need domestic tourists , their owners must realize that in hard times they will need domestic tourism.
Strangely I believe that the goals of the #Jan25 revolution are actually the #July23 Coup goals that have not been fulfilled throughout the 60 years but I can not believe that in 2012 Egyptians are not allowed in certain places in their own land , this is 2012 for God sake !!
And in July 2012 Egyptians are not allowed in to at certain resorts because they are for foreigners only in the Red sea !! “Arabic”
Here is a video clip filmed from two days ago in Makadi Bay , at Grand Makadi resort where Egyptians are not allowed in except of course as workers !! Ironically Egyptian Mr. Hani who filmed this clip and had this conversation with the security was not going to stay there but rather to visit his German friend who was staying there !!
Grand Makad :Egyptians are not allowed in
According to twitter friends recently Grand Makadi applied this discriminatory policy against Egyptians. Anyhow it is not only the Grand Makadi resort that applies that disgusting policy , other resorts in Red , Matrouh and Siwa !!!
I do not understand how the ministry of tourism is begging Egyptians to support domestic tourism when Egyptians are treated like that !! Is not it enough many Egyptians prefer to travel to Lebanon or Turkey because it is much cheaper than a week in Sharm El Sheikh or Red sea !!?
This is discrimination and despite I know that these resorts think that they do not need domestic tourists , their owners must realize that in hard times they will need domestic tourism.
Strangely I believe that the goals of the #Jan25 revolution are actually the #July23 Coup goals that have not been fulfilled throughout the 60 years but I can not believe that in 2012 Egyptians are not allowed in certain places in their own land , this is 2012 for God sake !!
Technorati Tags: Citizen journalism,Egypt,Discrimination,Society,Egyptian Life,Tourism,Red Sea,Grand Makadi,Video,Media
Speaking as a foreigner who visits Egypt.
ReplyDeleteYou have to understand that foreigners are not used to hassle when they are on holidays. As a foreigner we are hassled retlentlesly from the moment we get up to the moment we leave. The ONLY safe place we can relax and read a newspaper without hassle is in some hotel lobbies. The moment we step out of the hotel we are pestered 24/7 by hustlers, pimps, merchants, begging children, beggars, sexual predators etc. The hotels obviously give us a safe haven to enjoy a holiday within the confines because for so many of us now it's just not worth the hassle to go out and explore. Instead of complaining about Egyptians being treated lkike this think of the millions of dollars you will lose if we finally give up totally coming to Egypt because if you dont get the hasslers and hustlers under control you will lose all tourists I promise you.
Westerners just want to enjoy Egypt without the constant 24/7 hassle every single day. No matter where we go it is hassle and the hotel like Makadi is a refuge from it. Another thing Egyptians dont seem to understand. When we see 100 different stalls in a market, we will ALWAYS choose the one that displays the prices. Egyptians need to get this into their brains. Our culture is different. If you want us to buy then display the price. That way we will come and buy from you. If you dont display the prices then we will avoid shopping at your stalls and markets because for us we do not haggle prices and cant be bothered with the criminals. Just simple price tags on the items and you would sell millions of dollars worth of goods to tourists but Egyptians really need to study tourism. Any hassle and we will walk away and you lose.
And do you honestly believe that Egyptians, staying at the hotel, paying money, are pimps, hustlers, beggars and sexual predators?
DeleteGo get your brain checked. Moron.
And you honestly believe that Egyptians staying at the hotel, paying for their stay, or even visiting their friends, or they are going there for lunch or whatever are hustlers, pimps, beggars and sexual predators?
DeleteGo get your brain checked. Moron.
What an obnoxious comment.
DeleteI'm an Egyptian (live abroad) and I have to agree with this person to some extent, true they're not hustlers or pimps, but they ogle, the kids are noisy and they're not controlled, I remember once I went to Hurgada and saw a child defecate in the water!!!I never went to that place again. I always go to Sharm every time I'm in Egypt, time after time the water condition deteriorates. Last year, I went to Porto Marina, went to the beach with my wife (she was wearing a bikini) I think we got filmmed by dozens of fellow Egyptians who I thought never seen a lady with her husband and children wearing a swim suite in their life. I could go on and on, but now I go to the Caribean instead, less money, better service and no one to annoy you. Don't let patriotism control your way of thinking but when the Egyptian people leave other tourists alone then I and others will go back to Egypt.
DeleteOhio:
DeleteHave you visited Mexican & caribbean touristic places ? you didn't get hassled to purchase their products? You never get hassled from the airport to convice you to visit & purchase rental Condo units????.
If you care to visit Egypt is the driving force to sit down,sleep and read at the resort, or to see and enjoy history and beuty of the seashore that have no match in the world?? BTW I am ex-egyptian for 40 yrs, and I had/have my complaints with the system but never I can grasp the ignorance projected in this comment!!
@Soblar and Ahmed
DeleteYou two are in obvious denial of reality and insulting a tourist who holds a mirror in front of your face is not very bright either.
Egyptians, who visit a friend would of course be welcome at any resort. However, we have to defend our property against hordes of hustlers, pimps, beggars and sexual predators. The authorities don't do their job and local culture placates foreign women as whores anyway. So we would be overrun by scum.
We are just defending our business and as long as Egyptians don't learn to respect others we will have to continue keeping them off our property. Your arrogant comment just tells me that we are right.
While hassling is wrong, what does it have to do with preventing me from reserving a hotel room in my own country. Excuse me. You think I am reserving this hotel room to hassle you?
DeleteI'm disgusted from these comments. If you don't like, Egypt and its people, leave. If you are Egyptian and you despise your own people, don't visit. I'm Egyptian and I've lived in the west almost all my life and your comments are some of the racists I've seen in my life. You see it acceptable to be racist against the people of the country you live in! You accept the people who actually own the country you live in to be banned from going to a public hotel because you think Egyptians are disgusting! What a bloody racist you are.. AFter all you are working in Egypt earning money from the country and probably tax free.
DeleteDisgrace...
I am neither Egyptian nor a westerner but I resent the gutless "Anonymous" the first's comment and that of the "Egyptian living abroad". You can put your millions "where the sun don't shine" for all I care... There are hungry people out there - deal with it! You want to experience other cultures from the comfort of your 5 star hotel? Read a book, watch a documentary or go online! You want to visit other people's homes, you need to respect other people's homes - otherwise, stay at home. Better yet, go fix the country YOU live in, then you wont need to visit other places!
DeleteJust wondering - why do you visit Egypt if you're so disgusted by the people who live there? I'm a foreigner living in Cairo, and the idea that you are pestered 24/7 is just absurd.
DeleteLock yourself in your home you ignorant twat.. You make my stomach turn. This is the 21st century you moron.. I m so outraged at your racial perspective, I bet you feel my venom.
DeleteThat is why I hate the white arrogant man (and of course his local slaves) who think the world is created for his white skin service...I have been to France and Germany and I found it disgusting to find wine , kissing in streets and sex shops every where..also alot of biggers and homeless drunkards...and I did not ask them to change their prostitutional culture..we have bad customs and U do..no one is perfect ..if U think U are perfect ..go and live at the moon
DeleteIgnorant white trash.. I'm glad rotten hotels like Makadi keep you IN (not keep us OUT) to protect us from garbage like yourself !
DeleteSince you want to enjoy others serving you and spending your money,stay home,and spend at home vacationing at home to help your own country,parasite!
DeleteI totally agree. This is not peculiar to Egypt. It is practised everywhere, simply because foreigners need protecting from the vultures that exist in all societies who believe these (strangely always perceived as rich but stupid). There is also the custom issue. I see Muslim only hotels are springing up all over the world to facilitate the segregation of women from men. Let them be....
DeleteI was here searching for the figures for tourism in Egypt. How much will it cost the people now that civil war looms?
Deleteis it true that Egyptians are not allowed to leave their country? it is according to 1 Egyptian I talked to and my friend in Facebook
Deleteis it true that Egyptians are not allowed tp leave their country?
DeleteActually no, they are allowed to leave the country freely but recently a group of political activists were not allowed to travel because of some legal problems
DeleteHotels seem to to be the ONLY place left now where tourists dont get hassled.
ReplyDeleteEgyptians really need to learn about tourism and how to attract visitors because the last 5 years have been hell for tourists with the constant hassling and haggling and sexual perverts wandering the streets.
Rather than complaining about how Egyptians are treated try to think about how you treat your guests who are the ones who are bringing the foreign currency to your country. Egypt used to be very tourist friendly but now it seems that all we are are ATM's night and day ready to be taken advantage of by everyone from the young child begging to the perverts walking the streets. If you want Egypts tourism to survive then you need to really solve this problem or you will have none.
Another obnoxious comment, this time mixing tourism with aid. I wasn't aware people that thought like you still existed.
DeleteAgain.. white trash. Don't visit if you're so disgusted !!!
DeleteI have just one comment to this: Egyptian trash - you need Mubarak to return and teach you some manners!
DeleteThe writer is absolutely correct. Egyptians are incapable of putting themselves in the position of another person. they only think of themselves and getting some money. All of this adds up to non stop hassle for the tourist. A visitor from another country maybe has arrived for the first time and wants to enjoy themselves and relax. Selfish Egyptians will not allow this they want to harass them constantly. The tourist learns to stay in the hotel and 2nd not to come again.
DeleteDear Zeinobia,
ReplyDeleteLast summer, I was taking a walk along a beach in Agami, Alex, sinking my feet in the sea water, suddenly I got some guards asking me not to walk in "this part of the beach because it is private" which made me stop and look around to find out that a Gang calling themselves a Touristic company stripping out a part of the beach, putting up few white open tents with large white beds for their guests to lounge on, and forbidding people using their body guards to swim in this part of the sea or even walk in it. It was of course shocking, i asked to talk to the person responsible, they send me one of their young gangsters who informed me that yes the company is renting this strip of the beach from the governorate and they are free to do whatever they want, and that was after the 25th of January revolution which was calling for social justice and dignity for Egyptians.
Hasbia Allah in the filthy old regine which is still operating in full throughout our poor country.
The Italian Club is Bulaq does not allow Egyptians in its restaurants if they are not in the company of someone with a non-Egyptian passport.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure ? Coz my friends go there all the time !!
DeleteIndeed the Italian Club has occasionally stopped Egyptians (and other nationalities) as in theory only Italians are allowed in, but they rarely enforce this. In practice, most people can get in, esp. if they speak some Italian.
DeleteOrdinary non-military Egyptians are not allowed on the military manmade island in the middle of the Nile. This is also significant.
ReplyDeleteI booked a holiday in Le Meridien Makadi Bay from the UK (where I work and live) and the hotel cancelled my booking two days prior to the holiday saying "Egyptians are not allowed". I've also had some annoying experiences with other hotels at the check-in stage in Sharm and Hurghada, but they let me stay after fights similar to those in the video. It's a real shame.
ReplyDeleteBecause after the Egyptians any place into a garbage can!
ReplyDeleteYou will all hate me for this but:
ReplyDelete1. With the way we Egyptians treat each other everyday, I support privacy and protection for tourists. They bring in money that we desperately need.
2. Yes it sucks that we reached this point, but I'm sure there's a much more sad disturbing truth behind why such touristic business are resorting to such extreme measures.
3. Makadi and other such tourism businesses should be at least given a chance to tell their side of the story and explain why this is happening.
3. Has it crossed anybody's mind that after the revolution, the security situation, El Amr Bel Ma3roof, and the sudden rise of Islamists could have something to do with private beaches taking all possible measures to ensure they remain private (and safe)?
4. Everybody has an agenda.
5. There's a reason for everything.
i know for a fact english women go to luxor looking for men to have sex with and this happens every year
DeleteNot all woman go for sex. Granted a lot do. I go because I love the country and the people. I have many egyptian friends both male and female. But I did get angry when the police kept asking my egyptian husband for our papers. We were legaly married through the british embassy. No matter how much hassle I get it will not stop me going to egypt. I do not like the way egyptians are treat in there own country. I used to book a holiday from the uk and we always had a problem when we got to the hotel because my husband was egyptian. It.s wrong. We are clean.
DeleteI was living in Luxor for more than a year. I have never met a woman who visited luxor for sex but plenty of Luxor men that believe this and harass any woman with blonde hair even if she is 90 years old. Sex with Egyptian men is so bad that women realise it is not worth it anyway, that is the sad reality. Egyptian men are so inexperienced that they do not understand how to please a woman so stop believing you are all studs, you are not, you are crap.
DeleteTo the first anonymous poster,
ReplyDeleteYou're probably on the misguided side of the argument when you're trying to justify racism. That's just a general rule of thumb. Yes there are unsavory characters here just like anywhere else but racism isn't going to help us 'solve this problem'.
Thanks for your concern and tourism.
--An Egyptian (who happens not to be a pimp, hustler or sexual predator who'd like to go to a local hotel occasionally)
Nice one :-)
DeleteIt's not racism to bring attention to the harassment by the locals. Every 3rd world country is the same, and even many European countries. To be pestered every minute every day by people who think you're rich, even though you may have had to save up your money for a long time to take a holiday in a country you admire and want to enjoy (why else would you want to go there?), is just exasperating and exhausting.
DeleteAnd so, after visiting many countries many years ago I decided to never take an overseas holiday again, which will probably make many commentors on this blog happy, at least the ones who tell 'whitey' to shut up and stay at home. Now that's racism.
Robert
Sadly, I can only confirm those comments about the permanent hassling, I would add that as a women I don't need the sexual harassment from Egyptians either.
ReplyDeleteBTW on the public beach in Hurghada, foreigners are not welcome and the "first row" is for Egyptians only!
What would be very interesting would be an honest justification of this policy. You should try to find someone who works in the management of such a hotel and is willing to talk to you.
ReplyDeleteDoes the management think, that European tourists are irritated if they see any headscarves?
Are they afraid of religious activists, that could collect evidence of sinful behavior more easily?
Do they think that the cultural differences are too high? In Germany, for example, prostitution is seen as a relatively normal job.
Or do they even think that contact with Europeans would lower the morale of the Egyptian population? Certainly the German social norms are unacceptable in Egypt.
Eike.
Ohio Says:
DeleteAgree with your logic. Mgmt should be ready to explain/support their decisionor shut up. And local so called religious beards/scarfs should equally shut up and learn what religion means , it is not like Soccer teams supporters vs. haters. If MB claims to understand what egypt tourism require they should tlak and act accordingly or shut up and leave the country and go their beloved Saudi Arabia.
This & some of the comments supporting discrimination are pretty f-ing disgusting! Go to a private beach in Abu Dhabi. You will see men in their swim shorts & wives wearing the full scarf & abaya sunning on the beach. No one cares! Money is money & if the tourist industry is having problems, perhaps they should look at their own policies as part of the problem.
ReplyDeletehello every body,I am hani (Trouble maker guy) first of all, i really appreciate all your comments (negative or positive)... My problem is that iam an Egyptian proud of my nationality,want to be respected in my own Country...the only place i shouldn't be allowed to visit in my own country as a civilian is in the military areas...Beggars and sexual hassle is in all the world not in Egypt only, just u previously referred to and explained in some of ur comments... appreciated
ReplyDeleteRespect, dear Hani, has to be earned! The degree of sexual harassment in Egypt is outstanding compared to other countries and it is not just foreign women complaining about that.
Deletethanks ya Hani your stand
DeleteNiqabs only on new Egyptian TV channel. The story is also at Ahram Online.
ReplyDeleteThe differences between London hotel with Europeans and an Egyptian hotel with Egyptians.
ReplyDeleteEuropeans flush the toilets after they use them.
Egyptians dont.
Europeans wash their hands after using the toilet.
Egyptians adjust their scarves and admire themselves for 20 minutes in the mirror without washing their hands.
Europeans sit at a table and eat quietly respecting other guests.
Egyptians shout as loud as they cant to each other, and allow their kids to run around, sit on tables, climb on chairs, play with condiments, throw food on floor and expect the waiter to clean it, smoke until they are told to put it out.
Europeans speak with manners to the waiters.
Egyptians speak to them as servants.
Europeans keep rooms tidy and clean. They usually put dirty towels in the bath to be replaced.
Egyptians trash the rooms, spill food and drinks on the floors, break furniture, use every towel and then leave them lying all over the room, a room looks like it had a tsunami after an Egyptian family leaves it in the morning.
Europeans respect other guests right to peace and quiet.
Egyptians are loud and very badly behaved in hotels.
Europeans can lie around the pool not taking much notice of other guests.
Egyptian men AND women ogle and stare at other guests. Often men take photos of the women on their camera phones. They are noisy and do not respect others right to peace and quiet.
Waiters in Europe will do their job and wait on you.
Egyptian waiters flirt, chat up women even when their husbands are there sitting in front of them, they have no shame.
I am a European married to an Egyptian living in both London and Egypt.
Egyptians are steadily losing tourists for these reasons and many others.
Where I live in Cairo the company that runs the compound refuses to rent out apartments to Egyptians and it is an Egyptian company!!. I asked why when we first moved here why they discriminate and they said because they trash the place and they have to do so many repairs after they leave and replace items they stole. It was only after negotiation and my Egyptian husband showing proof of living in UK for 6 years that they would allow us to rent till we bought. Thats an Egyptian company!
You are a racist ma'am.. a blunt, obnoxious one. I don't know how a decent Egyptian man, in his right mind, would marry a person like you. You are plain white trash and you know it and this is why you post a comment such as this. You make my stomach turn !!!
DeleteANY Egyptian man will gladly marry ANY foreigner just to escape from his miserable life! This Egyptian arrogance is unbelievable!!!
DeleteActually, she's just stating the fact here. It is based on an actual experience so try to comment on the issue, not on the person delivering the facts and call her a racist. Why wouldn't you acknowledge that such facts does exist and being practiced. It's not racism at all. Racism is a scapegoat of people trying to vindicate themselves from an obviously truthful issue. I've been with at least 30 egyptian people everyday, only 4 of them are mannered and excused from the post above.
DeleteTo
ReplyDeleteAnonymous7/05/2012 04:28:00 PM
It has nothing to do with scarves or religion.
Maltese women wear scarves and are religious but do not behave like Egyptian women.
Its about respecting others and basic manners and hygiene.
To hear an Egyptian say excuse me or please or thank you to staff or workers or service providers is rare. The men are obsessed with sex it seems and cannot stop looking at women. It is torture being in a hotel with Egyptian guests who basically trash the place. Drop food and litter at their feet. Let their children run wild annoying guests and breaking furniture. Last night I was walking past 2 seven or eight year old boys who were smashing a tree with a stick and trying to break the bulb in a light. They were bending the young tree over to reach the ground trying to snap it. Less than 3 metres away sat the family totally ignoring what they were doing at a table and chairs in a fairly expensive membership sporting club. The father could easily have reached out and grabbed the stick out of their hands but he didn't. I had to call attention to them to stop them smashing the light fittings and the family just looked on and said nothing.
It's like being in a zoo! and eating in a restaurant with Egyptians is like feeding time at the zoo. It's shocking the lack of manners, respect for others and property. What the hell happened to Egypt and Egyptians? The more religious you try to seem to appear on the outside the more uncivilzed you have become. It was not like this 15 years ago. Saudi Wahabi piety influence has sent you all crazy it seems.
SIMPLE......U dont like us, DONT COME, U dont like us, DONT BENEFIT FROM OUR LAND, we are what we are and getting better JUST LIKE ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, CHECK THE HOMELESS, DRUNKS And DRUGGED SCUM all over Europe and US. At least here u can have a walk 3am and feel home
ReplyDeleteHypocrates....pls go take a piss or something...
@anonymous 01:08:00, typical Egyptian, if you can't take critics and look in the mirror and face and acknowledge your problems, you'll never get better or advance. Go ahead think and say I have no fault, all are wrong and I'm right see where it will take you!!! Have you ever wondered why when Egyptians travel abroad they behave very well? Because they're afraid that people would look at them as uncivilized, however when in Egypt they behave like hurds because it's normal in Egypt. Wake up people and start behaving like civilized people and teach your kids good manners. That's how you advance and get better in life. Don't live in denial, there is a problem and people should face it and not sweep it under the carpet and say if you don't like it don't come!!!!
DeleteOh no! It is not that easy. I need the tourists. I cannot make a living from Egyptians only. Sadly, Egyptians who respect our property are rare. It is simple truth what was said before: Bad manners, trashing the place and annoying guests is the rule.
DeleteIt is so ridiculous to compare some drug addicts in other countries with what is local culture in Egypt and I doubt that even Egyptians feel secure and at home at 3 AM walking around in streets covered by dust and garbage.
Well guess what dear Egyptians do feel secure in their homes at 3 AM
DeleteAlready if you think Egyptians are annoying and dirty , I real that you leave our country to somewhere more civilized
I have been going to egypt for about 17yr I also lived there with my egyptian husband. But even before I got married I always felt safe no matter what time it was day or night. Most egyptians I have met are ok. Granted some do hassle but they are just trying to make a living. I say just let it go over your head and enjoy the time in egypt it.s a great place.
DeleteOh No! We don't benefit from your land, you use your land to benefit from our Tourist Money, the largest draw of your economy. Without tourists, your economy would suffer, hence, affecting you all people. Get the facts straight. By the way, while im typing this comment, an Egyptian officemate kept on spitting on the floor. Gross!
DeleteI am so amazed and disgusted by the amount of hate and disrespect to Egyptians expressed even by Some self hating Egyptians
ReplyDeleteDear Hoteliers if you think the uncivilized Egyptians are harmful to your industry , you can move to another country but this amount of hate and disrespect to the locals that in the end you need to make your business work make me wonder why did you come for such horrible country with horrible uncivilized people ??
Tell me one single country its people are
Sexual harassment is not an excuse in my point of view and you know that very well , the one who can afford a weekend in Makadi bay will not harass women , you only want to some sympathy using the latest social disease in Cairo.
P.S I hope hoteliers that without Egyptian tourists , the uncivilized unclean harassers many hotels would have been closed in the past years during the crises this country faced from terrorism years and so on. No wonder rich Egyptians spend their vacations abroad like in Turkey or in Lebanon !!
A wise man said once "Mafish Fayda". Instead of working on fixing the problem, we simply say "don't come to Egypt if you don't like it" Infact people from all over the world love Egypt, I know because I travel to different parts of the world and people love to go but are afraid to. How will you fix the image of Egypt and Egyptians? By saying this is the way we are? Love it or leave it? Ok, then no one comes to visit, now what? Do you know how many people would lose their jobs? Tourism is one of 2 or 3 money makers in the whole country and to simply say we don't need tourist then you're wrong, the comments are not invented for the hell of it, it's based on real situations. No one comes to Egypt gets treated well by the locals and then goes back home and trashes the country and the people. There is a problem, face it, fix it, then I gurantee you the hotels would not have this policy. Again, all the negative comments are made so Egyptians would be aware of these issues, if you go to the doctor and he/she says there is something wrong with you, you don't come out to say that doctor found something wrong with me, was honest with me but hates me because he is telling me the truth.
DeleteYou would be surprised to learn about what our EGYPTIAN staff feels and thinks about Egyptian clients. I don't have to repeat the description of the behavior of the average family again - what has been described above is all so true (some exceptions don't change the rule).
DeleteOur staff prefers foreigners and this not just because of the tips. It is the attitude. Tourists treat them as human beings. They treat them with respect. Their own folks (and Gulf Arabs btw) treat them as slaves and low-lives, bossing them around,making them feel miserable.
If we would open our gates to the Egyptian public, our standards would sink to lowest standards (Just take a walk on the plateau of Giza and enjoy camel/horse shit and rubbish all over the place).
May be, there is one misunderstanding: Of course Egyptians can make a reservation and book a room. What we do not accept are walk-ins and day guests. We have no means to separate the scum at the gate from the honorable ones. Tourist police knows of course the bad guys, however, they don't do anything about it. Even if tourists are filing reports - all help one gets from the officers is a nefarious grin.
@ResortManagement, "May be, there is one misunderstanding: Of course Egyptians can make a reservation and book a room"
DeleteSo how do you explain that one of the commenters here mentioned that he made a reservation at your hotel and his reservation was cancelled 2 days prior to his arrival because of his Egyptian nationality?
I hope you understand, if you are the American manager of the hotel, that your decision of not allowing Egyptian nationals to stay at your hotel is an illegal act in your home country and is punishable by the law.
For our new leaders in Egypt, I hope a decree will be issued to suspend a hotel license if the hotel denied Egyptians the right to stay at the hotel.
@ResortManagement have you seen the "standard" and "behavior" of some Eastern European tourists? Rest assured *some* of them are far worse than what you are claiming all Egyptians are.
DeleteTell me, do you interview them before reservation?
A blanket assumption that a certain group of people are "scum" until proven otherwise is outrageous.
@Hazem and @Ahmed: I cannot explain why that reservation was cancelled. We do not do that at our hotel.
DeleteI am calling those individual scum who try to sneak in our premises for the purpose of harassing our guests. if you think that such are just exceptions - then you don't know your own country.
That type of Russians, which you are talking about cannot afford our rates, however, you should consider that every month Egypt happily (!) receives 30.000 Russian tourists.
Egypt makes 13 billion bucks a year from foreign tourists. Now here is my question to you: "Do you truly think your hypocritical, blown out of proportion national pride and surreal attitude matters to those 10 millions Egyptians, who are making a living from tourists?"
Just go ahead, ban bikinis, ban alcohol and turn Egypt into a halal paradise and you shall have all resorts for yourselves - that satisfaction is guaranteed.
Educating the general public to treat tourists as guests with respect and care is the best method for building a solid tourist industry.
ReplyDeleteWe have traveled to many countries including Egypt and would never go back or recommend places we had bad experiences.
I understand Arabic well and was disgusted at what was being said and done privately between some Egyptians serving tourists during our visit.
The Egyptian public must learn how to self police each other when they notice a tourist being mistreated, after all the $$$ are important to the local economy but a country's reputation is more important in the long run.
"instead of complaining about how Egyptians are treated"
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that policies like this exist shows that tourists and foreigners are already catered to more than Egyptians in this country. I hear foreigners and Egyptians alike saying that they want the rude, loud, boisterous Egyptians to learn manners--but they aren't ready for democracy or they prefer a foreign teacher in their children's schools or a foreign manager at work.
Egyptians are already treated like second class citizens in their own country.
Why should I as an Egyptian care more about the business of a resort manager or the bubbled holiday of a tourist than the reality of life for these 'beggar children' and 'merchants'? How does it make sense to say 'fix your country but until then we'll impose this racist and insulting policy'?
This is part of fixing it--we deserve a sense of dignity too. If you want us to adjust to European norms, putting us down time and again and putting up walls is not going to get us there.
Or does that really matter? Is it more about having a nice cheap, isolated holiday in a country you aren't really willing to see? Or in the case of Egyptians who support this-- is it more about having a bubbled privileged life away from the riff raff, the dirty masses?
--Sarah
Asalamu Alaykom,
DeleteThis is a disturbing but beneficial discussion. What I don't think we need is to throw everything into it (including the kitchen sink). Sarah, when you say that, "they prefer a foreign teacher in their children's schools," that's a whole other topic.
I am an American teacher working with Egyptian children. Not only do I teach them facts (as do Egyptian teachers) but I teach them independent self-care and critical thinking skills, which I'm sorry are not in the Egyptian curriculum. Rote memorization in a large group setting only prepares a child for a test but doesn't really prepare them for life.
Perhaps a lot of the problem with Egypt is that the adults grew up under power of authority. In this way, the people only feel compelled to behave well when someone is threatening them with sancture. I teach using power of influence in which I cultivate well behaved children who are good because they feel the inner moral compass of right and wrong.
The children in Egypt are LOVELY to teach---and I'm not being sarcastic. They are full of the joy of life, lively, loving, fun, funny, talkative and ready to play and learn. I would rather teach Egyptian children than American children.
I am married to an Egyptian. I admire the Egyptian ways of hosptality, graciousness, sweet kindness, gentle ways, and bositerios laughter. They love to eat. They love to joke. They love to work hard and relax.
Do they litter? Yes.
Do they get surprised that some man's wife is half-naked? Yes.
Do they forget to watch their kids? Yes.
But, to the critics, I think you'll agree that if Egypt was really all that bad then the 80 million residents could not co-exist AT ALL. I find it a minor miracle that with poverty, politics and problems---not to mention the heat--that we keep it all together.
I agree that Egypt has MANY reasons for a visit. It is not the place for everyone. I didn't like Arizona. Doesn't mean I have to verbally beat the hell out of people from that state. It simply wasn't a place I enjoyed to visit. Rather than tell Arizonians how to make their state better for ME to visit, I just find a new place to go.
Frankly, there are 6 billion people in the world and they have always found a way to enjoy Egypt. It is the oldest continuous tourist attraction in the world. It will remain so long after the critics' voices have died away.
Your post is very wise and touching.
DeleteThank you.
Yosra,
DeleteI think Egyptian relations with foreigners is part of the topic and not quite as random as the kitchen sink. I teach too, I'm qualified and do teach critical thinking skills.
I've seen on several occasions blatantly racist hierarchies in salary with foreigners getting the highest salary, dual nationals less and Egyptians getting the least amount of money-- and in a lot of schools it has very little to do with qualifications and more to do with the color of your skin (or passport). I've seen job advertisements that will outright say "white" or "Caucasian" preferred.
I never said I have a problem with our loudness and boisterousness! I love my countrymen-- I was critiquing the others who have commented to that effect (Egyptians and foreigners alike). In fact I agree with what you said about not verbally beating up a place you don't want to go to-- I said "how does it make sense to say fix this problem but until then we'll be racist?".
I love that you've fallen in love with Egypt. Still, it somehow makes me sad that here you are, an American that can see the beauty of our country and our people when there are Egyptians commenting here that support putting up walls and who are racist against themselves.
And it's shocking that some expatriates are equating a high dry cleaning bill or higher rates at a hotel with being locked out of a place on your own land. I'm sorry but being ripped off is not quite racism.
I'm not denying that there is terrible treatment of foreigners but it IS denial if someone thinks that the average foreigner's life here is harder than the average Egyptian.
-Sarah
Asalamu Alaykom Sarah,
DeleteJust to clarify, my comment started off with addressing your addition of foreign teachers into the mix. Then the rest of my comments weren't really addressing you but rather the others. We are mostly in agreement.
Now that you've mentioned foreign teacher's salaries, I just want to say that I get paid in Egypt what I would get paid in the U.S. That, to me, seems fair. To get a teacher to leave their country and everything in it, there has to be enough money to warrant the move. International schools are willing to pay that and so are the parents of the students (in their tutitions). I'm grateful for the opportunity and thankful to God for the chance to make hijrah.
I am a female European resident in Egypt. Some of these comments make me feel like there is no hope for this country. Respect for each others point of view is non-existent. Why does everything descend into a slagging match, usually finished of with "if you don't like it go home".
ReplyDeleteEgypitians and residents get cheaper rates in hotels here, why? This is a crazy policy, most tourists don't know this, if they did I'm sure even less would come. Try sending out dry cleaning, if you are a European it's one price, Egyptian another, and this extends to lots of other goods and services. I battle daily to be treated fairly.
With these resorts excluding Egyptians well this is what it feels like for guests in your country all the time. Neither practice is right, it's racial discrimination full stop.
@ Hani
ReplyDeletethe difference is if you get hassle and it is rare anywhere compared to Egypt then you can report it to police and they will act. In Egypt the police laugh in your faces and do nothing giving every pervert immunity.
Resort Management
Great comments.
Egypt needs tourism thats a fact.
ReplyDeleteEgyptians need their industry to flourish.
Visitors want to help Egypt and to see the sites and help it recover.
BUT!!!!!
It is the duty of every Egyptian to change your society for the better.
Address the issues. Stop hiding your heads in the sand.
Look in that mirror and ask yourself this. When was the last time I looked the cashier in the eye and thanked them, or the last time I went up to a child and told him to pick up the trash he just threw on the ground and told him to pick it back up and put it in a bin?
When was the last time I stopped what I was doing and went over to the man beating the donkey and told him to stop?
When my child demands a pice of chocolate I told him or her to have manners and ask politely and say please and thank you instead of just handing them it?
Manners start in the home. The mother is the teacher. Every child should be taught manners and to say please and thank you and excuse me and please allow me to pass instead of pushing others out of the way.
Just basic manners!
To respect others rights to privacy and peace.
The latest phenomenon since the revolution has been the designer dog accessory. Now we see Egyptians keeping barking dogs that howl day and night tied up on balconies and in garden disturbing neighbours 24/7. No respect for others right to peace. No respect for others right to walk along a pavement without stepping in their dogs shit!
Egypt cannot afford to lose tourism.
Egyptians need to start waking up to the reality.
Otherwise tourism will really suffer so much it wont be fixed for decades because the sexual harrassment is already more than anyone can bear.
It's right that hotel management refuse Egyptians to book.
I would never rent my house to an Egyptian. No not ever.
Very interessting aspekt. But i think, that you shouldnt compare the situation of 1952 with today. Because in the past there was no mass tourism like today. Instead you should attack the privileged societs of foreigners and rich egyptians.
ReplyDeleteThis post really seems to move fairly many people. After reading the responses and thinking about the matter, here are my speculations on the motivation for these discriminatory politics:
ReplyDelete*** Racism of European tourists. ***
Many tourists seem to like the sea and the sun, but hate the locals. Think of all these radically right, and anti Muslim, parties that have become popular in Europe.
*** Incompatible behavior of Egyptians. ***
There are so many posts that claim that Egyptians would misbehave, there must be something to it. But it would be interesting what it really is. Middle class Egyptians, like Zeinobia and her male friends, would not harass European women.
But maybe hotel managers really believe that (lower class) Europeans can't be mixed with Egyptians, that the social norms are just too different. Here are two examples of Germans having a good time (I'm German):
German soccer fans in Spain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GENTZym1sE0
Drinking game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKXlEiFN8QQ
Zeinobia you should interview hotel staff under the condition of anonymity. You could also visit the public beach in Hurghada, and report how ordinary Egyptians behave there, and ask them what they think of European tourists. Maybe you can combine a trip to the beach with this research.
*** Contempt of the upper class for regular Egyptians (classism). ***
The hotels should earn revenue in foreign currency, the interests of the Egyptian population is irrelevant to investors and the government. People like Zeinobia are maybe stuck between the upper and the lower classes. They are not rich enough to get the privileges of the upper class, but they want to be treated with dignity.
In this regard it would be interesting if really expensive hotels also have a policy of excluding Egyptians. My guess: they accept everyone who can pay their extremely high prices.
Some of the posts about misbehaving Egyptians might also be results of this contempt for the lower classes.
Zeinobia, a post about class relations in Egypt would also be interesting. What do people like you think about the doormen, and the vendors on the street? How are you treated by your bosses?
Eike.
@Eike
DeleteIt is not only the lower classes who throw babies dirty diapers and trash out of car windows as they drive the Mehwar. Plenty BMW SUV drivers think that a car window is some kind of trash disposal accessory in a car.
@ 7/06/2012 01:54:00 PM
ReplyDeleteI am a female European resident in Egypt. Some of these comments make me feel like there is no hope for this country. Respect for each others point of view is non-existent. Why does everything descend into a slagging match, usually finished of with "if you don't like it go home".
It's all about respect and manners. Something that 90% Muslim Egypt needs to learn.
Millions of Muslims but very little Islam sadly. Very little indeed except meaningless rituals.
I had a debate with a few Muslim Egyptians.
If washing before prayers is mandatory and if washing is about being clean before praying and being clean to communicate with Allah.
Then if that is the reason and it is about cleanliness.
Why the ritual?
Why not IF it is about beking clean then use soap each time.
Islam has taken on so many Wahabi rituals unknown before Abdel Wahab and now Islam is unrecognisable from it's origins.
Egyptians because of 45% illiteracy are sponges for Wahabi teachings which have distorted and contorted a beautiful religion.
Sadly because of illiteracy and ignorance they also are targets for recruitment into extremism as we just saw in Suez this week.
God help Egypt and God help Egyptians to wake up and treat each others better and with respect. Enough of the class system and treating people as servants. Every soul deserves respect and often I find more respect in the villages than I do in the cities and malls.
If you have the likes of the foul mouthed Gigi Ibrahim gang as your spokespersons. The brats who wish they were born in the USA cursing on the internet like sailors what hope is there if this is the next generation for Egypt.
As an Egyptian today I will start to make a difference in my country and in my people because we cannot go on like this
ReplyDeleteI will make that change starting now with myself
It is good to hear the truth as others see us
We need to learn respect to each other and to others
Really I dont understand what is happening in this country
ReplyDeleteThis is a shame!!
It is not blind patriotism to say that; it is the truth.
The problem is with the Egyptian government that has been ignoring such incidents for a long time.
In fact, there is no tourism industry policy in Egypt: they think that a tourist is a dollar pocket, nothing more. They forget that the most important fact is that a guest enjoys his stay whether egyptian or not.
I have dual nationality, have been living abroad for a long time and have visited so many countries. I never have been to the red sea, and I will never go to such resorts that are irrespectful of human beings (and will never recommend them of course)
It is a pity that there are still people trying to justify this incident by poverty and money. A nation that does not respect its own people does not deserve to live. As long as such incidents occur in Egypt, I will always oppose the government.
I am amazed to find people on this blog saying such racists comments. Have you ever gone to France? Waiters are just unbearable and often disrespectful...and tourists still visit Paris. All Egyptians that justify this incident do not deserve their nationality. Of course we have many problems in our society, but it is not a reason to be treated that way.
Well, there must be a reason that Egyptians are refused to enter holiday resorts. I do think, also from the comments here, that there is a very generalizing attitude towards Egyptians and this is just wrong. Yes, I often get annoyed from the rude behaviour of Egyptian. But I also often get annoyed from the behaviour of the Dutch (I am half Egyptian, living in Holland).. I think nowadays rude behaviour is inherent to society, no matter where.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that Egyptians have to work on many things.Which is so difficult,because of religion, culture and mentality which is so deeply rooted in Egypt. On the other hand I often hear people praising Egyptians for their hospitality. So please, as Egyptians lets make sure that we function well in society, that we deal well with each other and with foreigners.
This starts with parents raising their children in a good way. Because actually, most children in Egypt, don't get a proper upbringing (looking at my own cousins, they are spoilt rotten and not taught proper behaviour at all) ..
Ohio
DeleteThe amazing realities Sarah, is that Egypt during Nasser time had many french (catholic) schools in relatively poor streets in Cairo. They introduced in the community all what you described in your comments (BTW Nasser send his son to one of them)and Muslim locals as well. They helped introducing proper disciplines and manners even in low-to-mid income areas. They didn't teach discrimination because of religion, sex, class, color ..etc. God help Egypt finding the way in the 21st century!!!!
When the parents lack basic manners and hygiene how can we expect their children to be better citizens
DeleteI love how people here are praising how AMAZING europeans are and how respectful they are. Please ask ANYONE about what Brits for example are like on holiday! They trash whole towns and cities not just hotels.
ReplyDeletespeaking as a englishman your remark is racist and totaly wrong your full of shit ya retard,i have never been to egypt but have family who have,and said how nice and respectfull the ppl are,but im sure there is some racist ignorant twats like you there...come to england then comment on us when you can make an informed decision.
DeleteDenying a certain nationality entry into an establishment amounts to apartheid and is unacceptable. If you do not wish to mix with "the locals" you should seriously not travel. I personally do not wish to support these racist practices and would not accept to stay at a hotel where Egyptians are not accepted. I would not like to eat at a restaurant where Egyptians are not allowed. And if it matters, I am Swedish. Zeinobia, I agree with you 100%. All the racist comments by non-Egyptians and Egyptians alike here make me wonder what the hell is wrong with people. Equality and freedom, people. Isn't that what we are trying to achieve?
ReplyDeleteYes that may be true but Egyptians themselves are the worst offenders when it comes to discrimination of others. The whole upper Egypt saidi thing. The way they look down on Nubians. The shelves filled with face and skin whiteners and the TV adverts praising white skin colour. Of not marrying a boy or girl with darker skin colour.
DeleteEgyptian 'locals' dont even like mixing with Egyptians and that's where the Europeans are different. They show respect to the poor man in the street just as they do the aristocrat.
hi all, im waiter, egyptian, in one of resorts. have worked many years in many different resorts. i can honestly say that some bad things have been done to guests, but if im really honest, when we have egyptian guests we see black days!!!! by years i cant change my mind, ther ar ethe worst guests. the one will mke you shame you are egypitian, yess really. of course not all bad, but the bad ones are the most loud and they are distroying everything for everyone else (other guests and staff as well!!). what i learned during my career is we miss EDUCATION, MANNERS, RESPECT. and you dont know who is worse, rich or poor... rich are so snobish, disrespectful, outrages and just unhuman!! the poor...like the zoo, really, sadly i have seen it all. at that time me and my colleagues are shamed in front of othe "normal" guests (including egyptian guests) are ashamed. and i worked with people who severly tried to ripp of tourists, flirt with woman, even one of beach waiters kissed a lady with her husband standing next to her. later he blam management for firing him. really its so difficult. i see my country and i love it...but i dont like what i see. and really we need this money from tourists, also they appreciate when being served well, always thank us and give good tip, which is really more than my salary for month. maybe i say too much and some people dont like it but i see something wrong and we all need to change, and if our behaviour changes, also tourist who come by time will respect this too. also i learn alot from my foreign colleagues, it was nice atmosphere before, and we teach each other, useful things and professional behaviour. people please let do good for our country and help eachother do great things for our country, so everybody proud and love egypt!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous7/06/2012 09:49:00 PM
DeleteI love your reply and you joining this conversation and thank you for this very honest appraisal of your work as a waiter. God bless you for having the courage to speak up and not be in denial like others because this is the first step to curing this problem. I say to you again thank you.
EDUCATION MANNERS AND RESPECT.
You nailed it.
It's starts in the home. What I can't get my head round at all is why in a so called Islamic country there is so much corruption, bad manners, lying and lying about the stupidest thing is the most amazing part of it,thieving, disrespect for others, sexual harrassment, the list is endless.
I often wonder what is being taught in mosques on Fridays by men, and what is it exactly that these niqabi women are doing going into mosques each day by back doors when they come out into the street and behave as they do.
Dear waiter you give us hope and hopefully more like you will speak out and help to try to put an end to this ugly phenomenon.
as a foreigner living in hurghada i can tell u that i was not allowed even to enter the lobby of Ali Baba hotel and i just wanted to pick up my friend who was staying there. discrimination? in lots of hotels i was allowed only to the lobbies. discrimination?? just the hotels in red sea r almost all working on All Inclusive basis and the far ones esp in Makadi dont have bracelets so any person who will go inside technically can take any food or beverage coz management just cant control outside guests... can be one of the reasons...
ReplyDeleteand yeah harassment is everywhere here! people must get some education about respecting other people's privacy...
julia
Ohio
ReplyDeleteAgree some social and cultural education is helpful, this can be done via Movie industry, TV, Government interfaces with average citizens in workplaces, schools. Even religious places can press the teaching of human relationships. Beards, scarfs, what you eat and drink aren't the boundaries defining good and bad humans before God. All that don't justify the resorts Mgmt's actions decisions. They can hire security guards from locals, and let them control safety and order at the boundaries. If some fail they can fire them and hire other locals...etc.. Other options the resorts can buy lands outside and setup places for locals to run shops(foods, clothes, souvenirs..etc). This way the presence of the resorts would reflect benefits to the locals.
Ohio
ReplyDeleteAgain, how those resorts decisions preventing Egyptians from accessing is any different from decision bstates in USA (pre-the sixties)preventing Blacks from sharing same Busses with White Americans ?? How US & European countries support that !!?
A couple of years ago I was in Sharm El-Sheik scouting hotels for a corporate retreat at which staff from over 30 countries were going to attend. At our first hotel stop, my Egyptian assistant was denied entry to the hotel grounds even though we had a confirmed appointment with the hotel GM. Needless to say, I put in a lame excuse to my overlords as to why SSH was unsuitable for the purpose of our event. We ended up going to Marrakesh that year.
ReplyDeleteEgyptians cannot afford to lose tourism? More than 70% of the country live in shanty towns (3ashwa2eyat).
ReplyDeleteIf your house is on fire, you don't worry too much about what the guests think. It isn't exactly a priority.
Also, you don't visit a country knowing its political and economic situation and then complain to the people who are living that political and economic situation about how your holiday was not up to par. I'm not going to go to Syria and say, you know what you need to reinforce the walls a bit more and keep those creepy, rude people out because I need to tan and swim.
The comments of that nature are quite simply, ridiculous.
Zenobia,
ReplyDeleteYour article "In 2012 In their own land , Egyptians are not allowed in" had more comments than other recent posts.
The obvious reason is the presence of a major problem in the Egyptian tourism industry in the manner foreign and Egyptian guests are treated.
The solution is simple....Educate locals to treat tourists and tourism as a resource to be preserved, conserved and nourished.
I may also add that Egyptians desecrate their own monuments let alone treating tourists as money-bags.
And to those who say "Love it or leave it", I say, the worst sin a human being commits is when they behave with arrogance combined with pride.
Face it you have a problem and do not go on denying it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete'm not surprised that Egyptians are treated as third class citizens coz we've always had this 3odet el Khawaga (Foreigners come first in Egypt). However, it's so painful to read some of the insulting & generalized comments by foreigners & Egyptians who have decided to describe an entire country as barbaric & uncivilized!
ReplyDeleteI can't deny that we have many problems & I agree to have witnessed some of the behaviors described here. But it is so unfair & cruel to generalize & it's arrogant to assume that foreigners are better & cleaner than all Egyptians!
I'm an Egyptian who has lived in the US for close to 15 years. Sadly when I visit Egypt each summer, I witness horrible discrimination all across Egypt, where the natives, the tax payers are denied the very same rights given to foreigners. Take for instance conservative women who want to swim in a burkini (Islamic swim dress), hotel/resort personnel rudely kick them out of the pool yet foreign women are allowed to flaunt topless in family-friendly resorts!!!!
I've seen rude waiters hovering suspiciously around Egyptian families during breakfast buffets, God forbid they chose to leave with a banana or yogurt for the baby! Yet a foreign couple will walk out with whatever they want & nobody will touch them!
Is it because Egyptians are chaotic & deserve such treatment? Well I've just come back from a week-long vacation in Mexico and since we set foot in the airport we were swarmed with sales people and it continued all throughout. I saw Mexican families, some of them loud, some kids were out of control too, but you know what? I kept telling my husband I wish Egyptian hotel workers would learn how to be hospitable & welcoming as these amazing Mexicans were. They always had a smile and were cheerful & polite & not once did I see a Mexican hotel worker treat the locals differently. I was do envious.
And for hotel management people, I'm sure you can apply clear rules & regulations & get visitors to pay an insurance fee upfront if you're so afraid us Egyptians will burn the place down! But to deny us what is rightfully ours is unfair & racist.
And for the foreigners & Egyptians who cruelly describe all Egyptians in such low terms, well in my 15 years in the US, I've seen a lot of the negativities you describe here, so its obviously human nature and i have never used these negative examples to generalize about all Americans. Ive seen ample unfleshed toilets in mall restrooms where the majority of visitors were Americans. I've seen American women use the toilet and never wash after that; I've seen condoms in the street; I've seen teenagers swear on front of families & I've seen quite a few loud kids as well. And yet i love this country & its people & have never let these exceptions turn against an entire population!! And it is never out of hand when it happens in the US because in the end we all have rules & regulations that have to be followed & respected! If hotels in Egypt enforce such regulations & apply fines while treating Egyptians & foreigners alike, life would be easier for everyone.
It's so sad sometimes to see how I'm treated in the US as a citizen with complete rights & freedoms, even though I got my citizenship in 2007! While in Egypt, the country where I was born & raised, I'm treated with suspicion and as a second or third class citizen just coz I'm not white skinned & blond!!
We have a serious foreigner complex that we need to treat. Hotel personnel need to work on being nice to Egyptians & foreigners alike. Perhaps when you do that, Egyptian visitors will be nice too and pay good tips. But don't expect us to be nice & generous when we clearly see the racism in your treatment compared to the smiles & great service you offer to foreign visitors!
Your immigration to a foreign country proves to me that you suffer from 3odet el Khawaga!
DeleteRight on Nahed.. great comment, thank you very much.
DeleteAnonymous7/08/2012 12:41:00 PM,
DeleteYour comment is ridiculous and rude! How dare you accuse me of suffering 3odet el khawaga when you know nothing about me or why I had to leave Egypt. Instead of picking on me in such a childish manner, focus on the main issue we are discussing, which is quite serious.
Nahed your comment is misleading and far from the truth. You have no idea about how Egyptians behave, which is no surprise, because you are a traitor! You abandonned your country to live a happy life in the USA and now you bite the hand that feeds you well.
Delete"... a banana or yogurt for the baby ..." oh my God! I am crying already! Didn't you see what Egyptian families do to a breakfast buffet? Just because it is free ( eat as much as you can) they are descending like a swarm of locusts, plundering as much as they can and stuffing "free" food into their bags. And they feel soooo clever about cheating the resort. this is not for the baby. It all goes into the fat bellies of the parents.
Burkinis are rubbish and unhygienic. All the sweat is flushed into the pool and it makes one puke to go for a swim in the sewer that those women leave behind.
"Before criticizing a man, walk a mile in his shoes."
ReplyDeleteNot too long ago, an international survey was published on the "rudest countries to tourists" (I believe it was a Yahoo news site). Of course, France scored high - as expected, but there were many surprises. I don't recall many details, but I remember Egypt was placed among the friendly bunch. Just to put some perspective next to the above, mostly negative comments above. The blame should be placed first and foremost on the Egyptian laws which permit such racist policies to be practiced here, assuming the facts in the report are true.
ReplyDeletePlease read!
ReplyDeletehttp://travelswithanineyearold.com/2012/04/16/an-open-letter-to-the-touts-of-egypt/
wow, what a great article!!!!There you have it, I'm a proud egyptian and hates what is happening in my country. unfortunately, every one is for a fast $ no one thinks for the long run or the future, the hotel owners, the shops keepers, the taxi drivers....etc. No one actually thinks that if I treat tourists (locals or forigners) nice they will come back!! As I said in some of my posts, I went to the caribean resorts many times, Mexico, I'll never go again, DR, been going for 5-6 times...Egypt, (sadly)is not worth it anymore for a nice vacation with the wife and kids, I can handle the touts and taxi drivers, but I can't have 2-3 fights a day when even attempting to take a nice walk along the nile or along the coast in Alex with my wife!!! all because she's not covered from head to toe!!
DeleteAnon says;
Delete100% correct Anonymous(7/08/2012 06:01:00 PM); Egypt has been sucked into the fake wahabi stream with Saudi money to drive Egypt backward and keep it from technolgically, and cultury advancing. People should keep and strenghen their faith, but not by the artificial wahabi format.This direction Egypt is going through pleases their (former ex-enemy), since 85 millions advancing and growing like china would mean winning without war.
alright,,,
ReplyDeleteim an egyptian male,, and im here to tell you that yes,, egyptian men are PIGS,, and even native women cant walk around in peace, its a disaster, especially that we call ourselves a muslim country, complete and utter Hippocracy . nothing is clean, nothing is organized, everything is worn down, beggars everywhere, harassment 24/7, everywhere, just go take one look at the metro stations and see for yourselves what women go through just to get to work and back. YES EGYPTIANS ARE PIGS! they drool at the site of bare legs and blonde hair, i honestly wonder how toursits still come here,, everyone here is in denial, calling themselves muslims,, it's a damn shame.. the US is more muslim than egypt,, and if you are still living in the dark ages and are defending blindly, it's your own problem and please, handle it. stop with patriotic bullshit against anyone exposing you to yourselves,, yes egypt is a very bad experience that i would not recommend to anyone,, open your damn eyes and stop thinking with your basic emotions, try to get some logic and be more critical. i apologize to each and every single tourist who had a bad experience here, on behalf of all the educated well-read people in egypt, we are all sorry. as for egyptians who are offended by criticism,, i don't really care about you, keep on living in the dark ages because we are certainly not going anywhere but backwards. peace out
unfortunately,, all -or maybe most- comments posted by egyptian people here tend to go in one direction: we are good people, anything wrong is due to external forces,,, just more and more denial and arrogance,,,
ReplyDeletefirst of all,, to the person who is so angry of egyptians leaving the country and living overseas in better worlds,, dear sir, you should not judge anyone at all, let alone judging someone who traveled away from his home looking for a better future, dear sir, the prophet of islam himself left his hometown and went somewhere else,, i really hope you're not that mad because you know they live a better life than yours,, because that would be typical egyptian thinking,, typical egyptian moral. JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED YOURSELF
to Nahed, the world treats us as third world country because we ARE a third world country and we certainly deserve to be,,,, anyone who says "ooooh its not us, its the laws, its the whatever,, its external forces., it's because we're poor... please cut the crap! anyone has a choice,, you CHOOSE to harass tourists, you CHOOSE to not do anything about it, you CHOOSE to be a greedy bastard, you CHOOSE to rip off people both of your own and also tourists,, you CHOOSE TO DO WHAT YOU DO,, its not because you're poor or the laws or anything,,, try telling that to god when he asks you why you did what you did,, there are no excuses whatsoever,,, i am egyptian and im here to tell you that we are a third world country because we simply CHOOSE to be one,, we never pick the right choice hence,, our country looks like it does... PEACE!
that happens becuase egyptians are good people and arent racist against immigrants or vistors but that will be changed soon i promise
ReplyDeleteyes ban the retarded albinos and mongolis from visting or emegrating to egypt . in europe and russuia they dont even use water to clean their ass after shitting they use toilet paper filthy european pigs
ReplyDeleteI beg 2 differ with that comment maybe not all clean with water. Our toilets are not the same as in egypt. But myself and my ex egyptian husband use wet wipes
DeleteEgyptians, if you don't accept criticism,if you don't look in the mirror, you will drown,and your country is already sinking into oblivion.
ReplyDeleteFalse pride is not a good thing.
I'm not egyptian but I've been living & studying here for 2 years now,and I don't like egypt,but I came here because I had great expectations about you, sadly they all vanished with time,right now I'm stuck,I have only 3 semesters left in college so I can't simply pack & leave,I must finish what I started.
Egyptians are humans,but your culture is weird.I'll list some stuff which made hotels like Makadi take a policy like this into action. (I'm not speaking about pimps & hustlers,I'm speaking about the normal,average everyday egyptian).
1-Loud,very very loud : go to a local cafe,you'll know what I mean,visit an egyptian academy & sit in the cafeteria,go to the metro station.
2-No respect for laws,regulations : visit cairo,see the traffic,you'll know what I mean,especially at night,where 60% of cars drive without their lights on, or simply go to city stars mall,and see how many egyptians sit around the fountain in the ground floor,where it's prohibited for people to sit around it,see how many egyptians fight with the mall security guards when they tell them to move. You can also
3-Survival for the fittest : a guy with big shoulders will probably take your place in the line,the metro station is again a very good example, local hotels too, where egyptians sometimes invade your table and sit with you because there is no other place (happened to me in a resort in al-sokhna)
4-Children : egyptians don't believe in "an adult-only" resort,mostly you'll find a lot of noisy children,who can ruin the day for you.
the list goes on. Most Egyptians are not civilized, this is not an insult, this is a simple note that every foreigner is noticing whenever he/she visits egypt.
If egyptians want the hotels to treat them better,if they want foreigners to treat them even better,they must start a real revolution, but on an individual level.
Nobody hates you, I have a lot of egyptian friends. most of them agree with me, most of them said what I said.
After finishing my studies here,I'll never visit egypt again....I'm sorry.
that is really sad about having people banned on the whole based on their nationality, i hope that doesn't really happen as a blanket policy.
ReplyDeletei know that most Egyptians are probably kind and wonderful people, but unfortunately as tourist, all those people are busy living their lives and not bothering you. i am a solo american male tourist and can really relate to feeling surrounded by predators the whole time i was in egypt
i just got back from cairo, and was lied to, manipulated, cheated, tricked about every 10 steps. i have never experienced anything even similar and i have traveled a lot. im pretty good at ignoring people or getting away, but sometimes they would start insulting me, calling me "stupid" and telling me that i don't use my head, that you shouldn't tell someone "i am ok, thank you" if they haven't asked you for money yet, etc. they might start asking me political questions, like who did i vote for in America, and then attacking me because my "expression" wasn't right -- even though i had completely avoided answering because i wasn't there to argue with strangers on the street about politics. i was there to try egyptian food & see monuments, etc. they would follow me and go on and on and on. i was there for 48 hours and was completely suffocated every moment.
i'm SO glad i went and experienced cairo for 2 days and got to see the pyramids, king tut's mask, the nile... but wow. the only time you can breathe is locked in your hotel room. i skipped going out for dinner both nights just because i was too tired to face it.
even employees at places like the Egyptian Museum were trying to give you the wrong change or make you pay for free services (like when you have to check your camera). they had even posted a sign to "count your change" above the ticket window, because i guess they can't get their employees to be honest?
i know that what i experienced was NOT the real egypt. but unfortunately, it's the egypt that tourists experience. i sat next to a realllly nice muslim Arabic-speaking couple from Yemen on the plane, and they had all the same experiences, so speaking an Arabic dialect or looking middle eastern or wearing a hijab does not exempt you from the harsh treatment i suppose. although they said they were never called "stupid". i was. twice in 2 days.
i'm NOT complaining or asking anyone to change AT ALL. i'm just offering an honest account of what it was like to visit, and why i might have a difficult time going back or recommending it to friends as a place to go. i'm really glad i went. it was worth it. i cried at the pyramids and looking into King Tut's mask, just because i couldn't believe i was actually seeing these amazing things i dreamed of my whole life. but 2 days was all i could handle being treated that way every 30 seconds.
If someone ask you that you are not allowed in you own country's property then what ll you do ,
ReplyDeletegreat article ,shame for them who are responsible because all humans have equal rights so just obey then just the sake of Allah almighty....
I regret that the problem of "white superiority" seems to be so widespread. No color or nationality should expect that they deserve to be treated as if they are special or should get preferential treatment beyond being a human being.Monetary status has no bearing on equality of treatment.All flesh ends in the same manner,no difference.
ReplyDeleteComplaining about western men and women not wanting to be harassed but providing no social outlets for men or women is equally racist. Why is it o.k. for an Arab man to have a white girl in the room but not the other way around ?
ReplyDeleteI am disgusted with the world because even though it seems to be the official or un-official policy of many even moderate Muslim countries. Going through men to arrange for a prostitute is not my idea of fun or 'real' social inter-action between cultures either.
I arrived last night having reserved a room for three people but traveling alone thinking I would help some women here have a comfortable place to stay, relax, shower, and enjoy my company (I have engaged ONLY in oral sex since 2010) only to be told by the hotel owner at One Season Hostel that hotels are not allowed to rent to Arab people who are not married (including a white man with an Arab girl(s). That is the real terrorism and discrimination and men controlling what their women can and cannot do and who they are allowed to have an interest in.
I am constantly harassed by men to buy something from them or give them money - do they not realize that people that are white are not all wealthy ?
I hate hanging out with men anywhere I go, where are all the so-called hot girls of the world ? Kept inside away from having a good time with foreigners. I am a prisoner inside my hotel room, the internet is my only social interaction because the way the world is paranoid I might entertain a woman and have and bring some happiness.
A lot of what I have read I can relate to. I have met good well mannered Egyptians who are good living Muslims and I have encountered the hassle and scams that have marred my Egyptian experience. I am not too surprised in reading that an Egyptian says his people are not true Muslims. I have to agree on the most part. My main scam that I fell for was undertaken during the holy month of Ramadan. The person involved is apparently married to an English woman who owns the building. People laugh at him behind his back saying at times that he walks five paces behind her. He however was involved in the scam be it under her instruction. He lied for financial gain as well as breaking a few other rules of Ramadan,I have been ripped off by Egyptians who parade as good Muslims I recognise I good Muslim. The man who I could name but won't along with others did really begin my decline in the great love I had for Egypt. My last visit just before the revolution was I knew to be my last until my heart decides otherwise.After this scam in which I was scared out of the holiday flat through coercion and threats I later asked a Coptic friend if the friends in the café would help me get what I was owed. His reply shocked me. "They will not help you. It is all about getting what you can from the tourists." From my early visits down the souk I discovered this culture of presents. We were always expected to bring presents. Every time I visited I could not meet with friends in the souk without them asking what I have brought for them. Is it not enough that I have spent all of that money to travel to your country? Is my presence not gift enough? I moved on down the souk discovering the Nubian Café in the souk. This problem did not exist at first but the baton is always passed on and so it was their turn as the hassle for presents down the other end they realised with me was spent. And then when I was last there it spread into the café. In that respect I did not mind so much as I spend so much time there and all they wanted were T-Shirts from England and as T-Shirts do not really suit me unless they are black then I didn't mind furnishing them with them as they earned them through their good service and yes in the café they are polite and well mannered. I will not say a bad thing about anyone who owns or works in the café. Perhaps it is because they are Nubian and Nubians are more laid back. They certainly have beautiful music. But I do agree, Egyptians need to look at how they behave and treat us tourists. Egypt is a magical land but I don't think many Egyptians appreciate that. I want to travel but although I am deterred from visited Egypt I cannot think of anywhere else I want to go. I love the culture and history. Any programme about Egypt, Egyptology I watch. But they need to sort themselves out and moderate their behaviour. As for their disrespect for Western women this extends to Egypt women also as I have often sat with young Egyptians who call out things to passing girls.Recently I was horrified to discover that an Ex-Pat living in Luxor is worse than any Egyptian I have come across as he targeted a centre for Poor and Disabled children trying to scam them out of their building so as to turn it into a high rent holiday apartment building. So it is not just Egyptians after a quick buck. As for Children I would meet with a number of beggars outside of McDs. A few coins and they are gone. They don't come running after me. I have stayed in hotels where many Egyptians have stayed. In one hotel they were perhaps students and so behave well. It is those who livelihoods centre around the Nile and Souk and Bazaars that are the problem. Please people heed these warnings and change for the better before Egypt falls into greater decline. People leave with bad opinions, share their stories and further deter others. Change or lose out.
ReplyDeleteHaving gone through these comments again the loudness in cafes. Not in the cafes I frequent and I have sampled several in Luxor East and West Bank before settling with the Nubian Café with its Mohamed Fawzy soundtrack. I have sat there with my laptop writing sometimes oblivious to my surrounding. The loudest noise I hear is the overzealous lads slamming down the dominoes. When they watch the football they are like the English in a pub reacting to the match as we do. I don't always pay attention. One little boy came in to sell tissues. Instead of 5LE I gave him £5. A friend pointed it out. I laughed it off. I thought "I just made his day." He was not an annoying child although I have known a number who were usually the bookmark boys. Not everyone is the same. I have known good Egyptians and bad Egyptians. Good Egyptians are merely trying to make an honest living whereas the bad ones a more dishonest living. In the troubled times good men may forget their goodness as they struggle to feed their families. The bad ones will probably never change. I have read good stories and bad stories of Egypt experiences. I have sat in the souk filming or merely observing. The same there good respectful traders and a few who are not. I have sat outside the café observing the souk. Tourists walk on unhindered if they show no interest. I have not been back since 2010 so matters will have changed through the present turmoil as men struggle to feed their families and souk traders find their savings spent. So what choice do they have but to latch onto whatever tourists are about. It is not an ideal situation if all you want to do is get from A-2-B unhindered. They need to learn to take NO as meaning NO of "La Shokran". One tip is don't open your mouth. If they are not sure what language you speak they have no way in. Say nothing and they will soon leave you alone if you are lucky. As for the Souk I had read they accept a simple NO or "Maybe tomorrow." And let you walk on. So learn a few of the tricks to combat their tricks. My nickname in the café is Sire. "Enta Sire." They would say meaning that I am wise to the ways of the Egyptian. Wise up and go with the flow.
ReplyDelete