Monday, August 19, 2013

Regarding the Myth of Bad Egyptian liberals

I am really tired today. From two days I went to bed after knowing that 38 detainees “From Muslim brotherhood supporters” arrested last Friday were killed in prison transportation vehicle in vague circumstances “Contradicting ministry of interior’s reports” then today I woke up to know that 24 Conscripts were executed in cold blood by unknown militants in Al Arish “No group claimed responsibility and personally I think it has to do with the crackdown currently taking place against Jihadist groups in North Sinai”.

My Facebook’s timeline has become an obituary page for photos of deceased friends of friends whom the later swear that they are not terrorists. At the same time my timeline has become a nationalist political tabloid page full of rumors on how Obama’s brother is a member in the MB , how ElBaradei is secret MB leader and Germany is controlled by the Muslim brotherhood. This is besides the hate and ignorance that make me wants to smash the laptop. I am sorry for this introduction but this will make you know how I feel now.

I am so fed up with that Bad Egyptian liberals who turned against democracy and are in alliance with the military to the end of that talk. It has become the fashion actually to speak about the Egyptian liberals as the worst enemies of democracy who crazy for power. I can not lie that we got politicians who are ready to sell their souls to the devil in order to get to the chair but from I saw and see the term liberal  is not the right to describe them

Well I got news for you : There are not real liberal politicians in Egypt who really understand the true meaning of liberalism except few. Yes there are not real liberal politicians in Egyptians except very few politicians like Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei.

The majority of Non Islamists as well non leftist politicians in Egypt are actually nationalists , some of them are secular but the vast majority are nationalists. Let’s see the easiest example : Tamaroud

Rebellion campaign aka Tamaroud is actually the child of the Hamdeen Sabbahi , the Nasserite Nationalist campaign and this is the top of the ice berg. It is the golden era of the Nasserites in Egypt !!

There are no true liberal parties in Egypt. I do not speak about here about Neo-liberal economic policies , hell the Muslim brotherhood had a neo-liberal economic agenda, I am speaking about politics.

I am so fed up reading news reports and articles from around the globe cursing the bad liberals of Egypt while ignoring the radical nationalist wave that hit the country as well its politicians and activists.

May be the world as well Egyptians will probably know how to solve their crisis when they start to name things by their true names.


  1. It is not just the liberals who are found wanting but every political faction as well. This is because the political scene is only fought on TV and media and filled with loud, provocative and angry voices.
    It takes time for parties to form, to create ideas and platforms, to advance candidates with coherent views.
    Even the MB who were the most prepared of the bunch, were also wanting when they came to power, they failed miserably, it was all slogans and they did not even understand they were failing (still don't).
    The media and coffee shop talk is needed but it is not a basis to build countries. If you think about the future, you need to learn to build, negotiate, adjust not posture and destroy anyone who disagrees with us.
    Binary positions do not advance, they look great as abstract principles, the real magic is in the exchange and the ability to either accept someone else's different opinion or get them to change theirs without insults, accusations or threats.
    There are liberals in Egypt, I hope they become practicing liberals instead of just media or coffee shop liberals.
    Same for everyone else.


    1. Did god sent us to this earth for obeying unjust people, whether it be Kings, Sheikhs, Military Dictators, Police Chiefs and Judges or was the purpose was to become better humans, obey him and enjoy a good life?

      Certainly it wasn't the obeying of unjust people specially if they are puppets and cronies.

      Was the blood that was spilt in ousting Mubarak useless blood? or did it belong to people who were loose change that can be thrown away if it seemed heavier for carrying?

      If no, then, it should be avenged.

      Is Liberty cheap and we can wait for another two hundred years more to get it, like since the time when Napoleon was in Egypt at the start of 18th century? Or is it to be had right now?

      If Liberty is to be gotten right now and the answer is yes, then REMEMBER, that the Military, Police and the Judges all are expendable and new Military can be trained later, new Policemen can be sent to the academies for training and new honest and god-fearing lawyers can be trained to become judges.

      So let us start by killing each and every military personnel, killing every policeman and killing every judge.

      But how can we approach the Military, Police and Judges of higher ranks?

      Go after the lowest rank possible and if you are afraid to kill the adult then simply get hand on their children, kill the bad seed and the parent will come. They will abandon their duties and post to come home to protect their families and hence the higher authorities will be left without any protection.

      And if you can't even touch their children then go after the relatives including brothers, sisters, parents, niece, nephews, uncles and aunts of these lowly military men, policemen and the the lowest ranking judiciary officials.

      Once these people start getting killed, all the right minded and timid Military personnel, Policeman and Judicial staff will start coming to our cause and start killing the genuine culprits. It is understandable that a large number of innocent people would be killed, but it is worth the
      numbers if in the end there is a just and workable society where everyone knows that you can easily get killed if you take injustice to unreasonable proportion. And this killing of unjust people by anonymous strangers will have to continue for a number of years so that everyone knows that unlawful and illegal behaviour costs you and your dear ones their lives.

      Even if a million men get killed (the whole of military, police and judges and judicial staff) it is a small price to pay for an eternity of just and equitable society, and the happy society that will result in the aftermath.

    2. May god protect Egypt from people like you.
      Step 1 in rebuilding the rule of law, stop all the anarchists and put them in jail.

      -- A friend from abroad

  2. Zeinobia and Raouf, you give me hope for the future of Egypt. But I also worry that after the MB you will be the next to be persecuted by the army/government. Please know that there will be those of us who will hold you in our hearts and prayers.

  3. When i refer to liberals my only context is the many jan 25 youth that claimed that they are liberals... i remember their tweets about the blood of the ones who died in the streets will not go in vain etc.. and boasting about their values are in line with modern society and the so called civilised world.. NOW... thats all gone in the bin.. 1000 khaled sayeds in a week.. and they have lost the guts and secretly drop their little jokes aboyt MB.. well im not MB or any type of Islamist but i admire a person who stands by what they beleive in and is willing to die for it..

    On the other hand those so called liberals, auc educated with daddies money obsessed with their own image.. im a blogger.. im a journalist.. im a political activist.. sorry in my book. Your a fake and the world knows it...

  4. say what you want but there are two important differences between the current regime and the Morsi administration....the liberal, secularist, nationalists in power are bathing in the blood of their fellow egyptians. And they came to that power without a democratic mandate but rather through the barrell of a gun. Morsi and the FJP won 5 democratic mandates and never massacred the population. In a violent country it was actually a year of relative freedom to criticise and even ridicule the political leaders. Of course one can criticies morsis policies and lack of achievements but what did we expect. I was not a supporter of the FJP and didnt vote. However I am now. And I think there are many like me who are now sympathetic to the MB. In any free and fair election the FJP and Islamist allies wil win.. this is the bottom line, they form a majority in a very polarised country. They need to take more notice of the fact that the opposition is diametrically opposed to them and is a large oppoistion (some 30 to 40%) but at the same time the opposition need to respect the fact that they are not the majority and short of ruling through a military coup they need to accept an opposition role and put up with it. That is the big failing, not morsi, it is the fact that liberal secular nationalist groups hate to lose power and dont give a f**k about elections

  5. please stop using those heavy badly coded scripts in your blog

    it's impossible to read your blog without freezing my entire machine just stop with the scripts

    1. yep also finding this a problem.

    2. You can turn off scripts in you browser, you know. (Should anyway for security.)

    3. Well, the Firefox-Addon NoScript works fine for me. But you can only read then – not write...

  6. You need a super computer to read the blog.

  7. not true. the blog function well

  8. The mentality of militarists is barbarism and violence. Force and bloodshed produce an equal and opposite reaction. No one in any military should be allowed to infect a political system.

    War is a scam created to divide and exploit humanity. Once it starts, it creates a self-perpetuating cycle and sets the stage for new and worse wars.

    The deep state is terrorism.

  9. Those who profit from this coup will be the wealthy. Morsi's biggest threat as far as Power is concerned was economic, not social. Since the Army is a huge economic player in Egypt we can see the connection. True liberals like Zeinobia will defend the electoral right of the last government. But there is a problem in this. Hitler was elected. The Salafists and The Freedom and Justice Party and the M.B. are fundamentally illiberal. But you either believe in democracy or you don't. However,in the so-called mature democracies Power controls the system effectively without recourse to arms. Here we have effectively one party systems with two factions. The so-called new democracies present a much greater threat to Power where they are, because Power has yet to find more subtle means of control. A cynical view is this: "If democracy changed anything they would ban it." We all need to redefine democracy. I don't see it anywhere. The revolution continues.

  10. In my opinion Zeinobia the Rabaa Massacre, exposed the morality of a lot of people. Its funny I have heated arguments daily with my 77 year old mother who supports the government and I accuse her of having double standards because the victims are from the MB. She accuses me of being ElBaradei lover. I think within our family we represent the current split in the liberal camp. So with your permission I will accuse my mom of being immoral.

  11. It is strange how unwilling so many Egyptian politicans are to admit that the bloodsoaked dispersal of the sit-ins was a mistake. It is abundantly clear that it was not at all an optimal approach to the problem, and that negotiation would gave been a far, far better course to take.

    The blunt truth is that most of the oustide world that has a stake in the outcome realized this fact. States like South Africa and other do not "support terrorism" or some other such nonsense. They simply realized the obvious and predictable outcome which would unfold. It is quite likely that many in this interim administration knew the same facts but secretly wished to set the country on fire so as to curtail liberty.

    It would be highly useful to learn from the successes and failures of the world's democratic states and their lengthy struggles with democratization and other change. Many have started to understand that a forced-based, ends justify the means approach is inimical to any kind of democratic condition.

    It is pretty much impossible to regard a policy choice which led to the following as successful:

    - Probably more than 1,000 deaths, thousands greviously injured. So pointless.
    - A tidal wave of sectarian strife, looting, and destruction
    - The rolling back of civil liberties, suspension of judicial protections, and a dangerous state of emergency
    - Major economic damage and further drop in tourism
    - Antagonizement of so many foreign states
    - Brutality against journalists and extrajudicial killing of reporters

    The internal "war" hyped up by the media is exactly like the insanity used to justify trampling on rights in virtually every war ever fought on the planet. This will end up being as widely acknowledged in the future as was the case with those hysterias.

    It is a blunt fact that there were better ways of dealing with this problem than the approach taken. Why is it that only a few anti-democratic states approved of the bloodshed? Why did the states leading the forefront of the region's counterrevolution express approval? Is it because they are suddenly friends of self-determination or freedom? Obviously not. They clearly have no interest in promoting democracy in Egypt and are not troubled with any level of violence to eradicate enemies. The idea that they are against terrorism is also a laughable excuse when they approve of state terrorism against dissidents and Shias. Their rabid support should draw concern, not perceived validation. Does anyone seriously think that Saudi Arabia wants any kind of freedom to emerge in Egypt or Tunisia or anywhere nearby? Remember their support of Mubarak and other dictators? That zebra has not erased its stripes.

    It should be obvious that pro-Brotherhood sentiment has not engulfed the world and is not the reason why democratic states are concerned about the suppression of civil liberties and massacres. Many know only too well were wars against political movements can lead and have extensive experience in those fields.

    1. It does not occur to you that an autocratic system like Egypt has no other means to deal with better ways of dealing with this problem. Neither army, nor police are trained to deescalate. The brotherhood wants bloodshed. Martyrdom is part of their teaching and the suffering of their supporters is part of their plan to woe support from the West.

      The army was right. Followers of the MB got the message.

    2. Egypt should not aspire to be only an autocratic system which "has not other means to deal with this problem." That right there explains why the bureacracy lurches from one crisis to another. An autocratic, militaristic approach cannot and never will bring true peace. Only a government based on the rule of law, human rights, and liberty can do that. Once the MB is sufficiently crippled, these predatory entities will search for other opponents, just like what happened after the past dictatorships. The revolution really has to uproot the dictatorial mentality and replace it with a more sustainable approach to security matters. Even if it were true that the army was right, it was still appear to be a failure in terms of protecting buildings, especially churches. Perhaps this is because it does want these places attacked to create more excuses for seizing wealth and power.

      Afghanistan, Syria, North Korea (a totalitarian failure), and the drone war all show the futility of believing that political opposition can be eradicated by force. The examples of Ireland, Indonesia, Tunisia, and South Africa, though imperfect, present better alternatives.

      Egypt needs to reform its military, security, and policing systems. It is not possible to try to simultaneously build a liberty based society while at the same time violating human rights and judicial procedures on a massive scale. Either an authoritarian/totalitarian state will be the eventual outcome, or the exclusively violence based approach will be ditched.

      The Egyptian "War on Terror" will not fare better than the American one.

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