For all those who skeptical about our victory please read this wonderful study by the American Major J.C. Moulton of United States Air Force from the Marine Corps University Command and Staff College published in year 1997
The 1973 October War: The Egyptian Perspective
Just read it carefully it is a wonder excellent analysis to the war of 1973 based upon the Egyptian perspective , again the one who presented this research is an American Major in the United States Air Forces
Please read it
And if you finish reading and you still have nothing to do , I will recommend that you read another study also from the Marine Corps University Command and Staff College ,this time the study was made by Major Ibrahim Al-Jowder from the Bahrain Armed Forces in year 1997
The 1973 October War : The Operational level
And more and more reading will not harm you at all , so I advice to buy these books and read it carefully then may be you will have a better idea of who really won the war back then
I mean if Israel had won the war , why such a book like "In the eve of Destruction" was published !!??
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Amazon.com: The Eve of Destruction: The Untold Story of the Yom Kippur War: Books: Howard BlumThis book by the way is referring to the Ashraf Marwan "The In-law" , it is by Howard Blum by the way
Also I recommend you to read the book of General Saad El-Din Shazely "The crossing of the Suez", the former chief of staff ,who has a very interesting official website
General El-Shazaaly was the smiling man on President Sadaat left hand
Updated: Just for the record I posted the book and the website link to cover all what the Egyptian Perspective is saying but I should have said that Gen. El-Shazaaly has issues with President Sadaat ,the same old difference between a military and a politician , unfortunately in his book I posted below he forgot that some Israeli general said they should make the Arabs forget that they had a victory in 1973 ,so they would not dare again to think in that positive way and that he would give them the service of their life time in my point of view by his attack on President Sadaat and General Ismail whom he did not like since their work in the international Peace force in Africa in 1960s "MY grandfather was covering the situation in central Africa when he saw it alive Ismail VS. Shazaaly"
No body can say anything about Shazaaly and his great experience and it is enough to know that this man in 1967 was the only one to fight back inside Israel itself with his brigade which was the only brigade to return safe to Egypt after the withdrawal
But what he did to the next generations in this hard times is so dangerous ,because our generations need hopes
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Amazon.com: The Crossing of the Suez, Revised Edition: Books: Saad El ShazlyAnother thing all the skepticals of 1973 always speak about El-Shazaaly but they forget about the Scary thin man aka Abd El-Ghanay El-Gamsy , the engineer of the 1973 war or General Abd El-Manam Wasl or any other generals who spoke about the war as if El-Shazaaly was the only patriot man in the commandership !! Why do not you bother yourself and read for those great men too at least you will get full image after all we are humans , they are not less patriot and their role was not less than his
THIS IS NOT THE WAR OF EL-SHAZAALY NOR EL-SADAAT NOR ANYOTHER LEADER OR COMMANDER THIS IS THE WAR OF THE EGYPTIANS , THE ARAB MINDSET LIKES THE IMAGE OF ONE HERO UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT A ONE HERO WAR ,IT WAS A WHOLE ARMY WAR BACKED UP WITH A GREAT PEOPLE
ANOTHER THING DO TAKE EVERYTHING AL-JAZEERA CHANNEL AIRS AS GRANTED FACTED FROM THE HOLY BOOK THAT DOES NOT ACCEPT TO BE DEBATED OR TO BE FALSE ,I SAW EL-SHAZAALY WITH MANSOUR AND I FELT SORRY BECAUSE I KNOW WHERE MANSOUR WAS HEADING HIM TO ,AL-JAZEERA ALREADY IS ADOPTING THE FAMOUS ISRAELI MEDIA VERSION OF THE WAR THAT WE HAD LOST THE WAR
here are the confidential documents released by the NSA of the United States , the National Security Archive after 30 years in 2003
Updated: Also it won't be a bad thing to read the special section from Al-Ahram Weekly "Thanks to Green data",it covers the testimonies of Egyptian generals,officers and soldiers from those who believe they did something great to be comprehended by new generations who nothing to do except to sit on their asses throwing charges of great treason like throwing balls to each other by the way I do not agree that 1973 war will be the last war with Israel just like what President Sadaat said ,already I believe he knew that is not true either but he just said from a diplomatic perspective ,and of course those who knew him very well will confirm this just like late General Abd El-Ghanay El-Gamsy ,I once read for him saying that in AL-Wasat magazine interview "Al-Wasat was a weekly magazine used to be published by Al-Hayat Publishing house in London"
Happy anniversary
That is an interesting thesis. However, it seems that he didnt know that Ahmed Ismael was nothing but a puppet who didn't have any say regarding the real planning and operations of the war
ReplyDeleteElshadhly is on the sadat right hand ;-)
ReplyDeleteWhen I saw Aljazeera program "chahed 3ala al3asser" (witness for the epoch) presented by A7med Mansour, I discovered a great man : sa3d eddin elshadhly!!! When i read his book : crossing of the Suez, i wondered if we shouldn't describe him as the "khalid ibn alwalid of the modern age"!!!
Sadat stole the victory of sa3d and turn it into a defeat when he ordred the troops to advance on the 14th day and refused in the next days to accept the solutions proposed by sa3d to this catastrophe.. The stubborn dictator was responsible of the daferswar thaghra (which was expected before the war by sa3d who prepared a plan B and trained soldiers to deal with it!)
Sometimes, I think that all this mess happened because God knows it was not yet the time to remove the sionist state!
Finally, I want to say tha the egyptian DCA lead by general lotfi fahmi (i think) played a more interesting role than the air forces lead by hosni mubarek! But we all know that the official media emphasize the role of mubarek and present it as he key of victory which is really ridiculous from a military point of view!
History taught us:
ReplyDelete1) Wars are tools that politicians /leaders used to achieve noble/OR./evil socio-political, economic goals and objectives. Wars typically consisted of strategic military battles designed with the help of military skills and efficient weapons.
2) Military battles outcomes are measured with short term impacts on the enemy soldiers’ lives, weapons and strategic geographic positions. For that military leaders are capable to give most accurate accounts.
3) Wars outcome are defined with the shape of the political curve connecting the outcomes of its strategic military battles. For this only honest leaders (very rare), time and political historians can measure and document.
Having said that, first couple of days of the 6th October 1973 war involved noted military battles that, clearly the Egyptian army had won with the help of skilled military design of General El-Shazly. No question about that. The following few days of the war however, involved other strategic military positions. The smart designer /performer of the initial battles (El-Shazly) was quickly deposed and ordered to “shut-up”. Does this make any sense to you? If you read his site (as I figure you did) you will note that he assessed the outcomes of the 1973 war favoring the Israeli’s long term political position in the region with some limited success (buying time) for the Egyptian’s military-politico leaders , a position we are still “enjoying’ till today!!!. This is the core of my argument that this war while involved clear sound military battles as a whole it was a political charade with lot of actors involved. Ask yourself, for instance if Kissinger was that wrong as some of your military references you sighted indicate how come he lasted two presidents and more as the smartest political mind in the US ??? He was close friend to Sadat!!!.
@Amre, Please respect other people , just because you do not share with the same view or you do not like you have to call them names , so please do not call anyone names in my blog
ReplyDelete@Tunisian , I am sorry you said defeat !!?? did you read exactly what I wrote before you jump to the conclusion that the victory turned in to a defeat , even General El-Shazely did not call it a defeat
another thing this is not the victory of El-Shazely not Sadaat and El-Sadaat never claimed it was his victory , it is the victory of the Egypt
and Sadaat Stubborn dictator man what was Bourghbia was !!??
look Tunisian Man may be you know about the Gap from the warfare point of view ,you must know that our dear Syrian brothers were the reason behind it and if wouldnot have taken place if the freaking Kuwaiti unit that was staying in Sheraton did exactly what was required from it before you turn the victory in to a defeat !!
@anonymous , when I posted El-Shazely website I did not post it to trash the victory and spread silly conspiracy theories
why are you so aggressive Zeinobia they where just expressing there point of view specially Tunisian ... a lot of Egyptians call Sadat a Dictator including me now when a non-Egyptian says it Sadat turns in to a good ruler
ReplyDeleteSadat was a great politician and a master mind but that doesn't change the fact that he was a dictator just like Nasser and Mubarak .
now about the kuwaiti stuff i have no info about that .. can you provide a
- link - prove on that ??
overall take it easy :)
@MEMO , i AM SORRY but this is not an aggressive respond , I am having enough from this silly talk that makes me feel so sad
ReplyDeletealso when I told Tunisian not to call Sadaat a dictator because I do believe he was a dictator like Nasser or Mubarak , for God Sake man they are much worst ,plus if you live in Tunisia Bourigba or Ali Zein Al-Abdeen you can not say that Sadaat is a dictator !!
about the Kuwaiti incident , well I do not have links , but I was told and heard from relatives who fought the war ,who lived the war and by late General Abd El-Manam Wasl himself in 25th celebration in the lecture regarding the gap and it was on air when he was going to make fun of the Kuwaitis and the whole hall brusted in laughter but the other generals saved the day before the Kuwaiti guests become angry , you know that late General was known by his long tongue
a historical fact there was a Kuwaiti unit in the point of that gap
zeinobia, I didn't call anybody names.I said that Ahmed Ismail was a puppet! That is not name calling. It is a hitorical fact that he was a puppet. By the way, there are no other opinions regarding that fact.
ReplyDeleteOn the kuwaities, you are right there was a paletinian and a Kuwaity brigade located on the west bank nearby the bitter lakes.
What counts here isthat we should thank them very much and kiss their heads for fighting for us.
On the Israeli salient.
Situation was precarious for the 3rd army, still Israel didnt have enough power to march towards Isamelia ( Sharon was soundly defeated when he tried to march towards Ismaelia) or Cairo. Even Israel's claim that it could have destroyed the 3rd army remainsdubious, because definetly that would have endangered the entire Israeli force on the west bank which was made up of 6 armoured brigades of the entire 9 armpoured brigades on the southern front.In the mean time, starting from November 1973 the the Israeli forces became a captive of the Egyptian army. We could have destroyed them on account, however, of severe casualties on sides
Also, it is wrong to blame syrians for the eastward attack on the 14th of October, because we could have never been able to go to war in the very first place without Syria
ReplyDeleteWhat does Bourguiba have to do here ??? Calm down, I hate him more than you can imagine! By the way, the fact a dictator is worse than another don't make the second one a democratic ruler ;-)
ReplyDeleteI came here as a friend who respects the egyptian people and to discuss its glorious achievement : crossing the Suez! You were right : the victory seen on the the first week of the war belongs to all the egyptian people and not only Shadhly! (Don't forget that the algerian, the iraqi and many other arab armies gave a great help too..)
It's not a matter of conspiracy theories, but Sadat, whose military knowledge stopped since the revolution, was responsible of the gap! The official story claims that he ordred the troops to advance to the "mamarrat" to weaken the pressure on the syrian front! This is non sense, because in many arab defense ministers summits that preceeded the 73 war, this issue was discussed and they came to the conclusion that in case of war each front has to handle the situation by itself!
The strategy of Shadhly was to cross the canal, to occupy 12 Km band and to stay there as long as possible which was very realistic! when the troops advances, the were no more protected by the SAM missiles and thus became vulnerable!
The main consequence of the gap was 45 000 men i.e. the 2nd army surrounded and depending on the israelies to have their food supply! If this is not a military defeat, then what ???
Shadhly himself said : "kenou khan2inna"
@Amr , please check the circumstance of how the Golan was lost in 1967 from the archives and if you got time check the interview and memories of Mustafa Talas to know how we could not make it without the Syrians , look I love Syria just like Egypt but history is history , the regime in Egypt whether in the era of Nasser or Sadaat since the defeat worked hard for getting our dignity where as the regime in Syria of Al-Assad and his gang worked hard to gain the rule , for God Sake they gave up the Golan without a fight ,I remember when I read an interview to Talas from couple of years "Talas the friend of Italian actresses not the puppet as you called Ahmed Isamial" Talas informed his buddies in the swimming pool 72 hours before the attack as if he was suddenly remembered
ReplyDeletedo not tell me the Syrian front , I am sure that if the Syrian army was in his real shape in real power they would have a great things and the course of the battle was changed to 95% at least in our sake , Hafez El-Assad destroyed his army and any patriot Syrian will tell you so , do not tell the Syrian front because I know all about it , you know Late General El-Gamsy and I do not think he was a puppet , once wondered about the Syrian army how they got all that weapons from Russia and did not made any significant victory , the man I remembered said that if we had 1/2 the modern weapons"at that time" from the Russians the Syrians had we would have regained Sinai , Amr do you know how old the weapons we had back then ,do you know that the Russians did not give us the new bridges and we had bridges from the WWII for god Sake , how can you compare the Egyptian Stable regime with the Syrian unstable regime full of conspiracies , it is not correct from the strategic point of view
Syria will return back the Golan with war I am certain of this but not in that regime not until its regime corrects the same old mistakes , did you read the American major study ?? did you notice what he said when he referred that Egypt learnt its mistakes
Pan Arabism is on my head but truth is truth , the Syrians would have never returned the Golans under the rule of "Al-Assad,Talas and Khaddam" this is a fact
@Islam, about the gap please go and read the website I posted in the above post , another thing the word defeat is too big to be described , I mean the defeat the real defeat means that Egypt wouldn't have returned Sinai reaching to the passes in Sinai ,I assume if you watched Saad El-Din El-Shazaaly you would know what the passes are
the real defeat to Egypt means there is no need for the Agranat commission in Israel and no need for an American back up
Did you know that this war could turned in to a battle between the American and Russian weapons and America would not let that happen and that's why there was a direct American back up to Israel and that's why Sadaat said he would not go in war with America otherwise we would have lost the war and do not tell the fancy romantic dreams no we would not because this is a basic rule in warfare and that's what we depended a quick sudden hit in order to paralysis the Israelis to gain us time
do you release how much losses Israel had in that war ?? do you have any single idea about the preparations of that war
I am sorry you depended on Al-Jazeera channel interview and the words of El-Shazaly as a Quranic verses do not accept to be discussed ,the rest of the commanders too did not like the decision of Sadaat but they do not accuse him of treason and they are and were not less patriot than Shazaly
do you know exactly what happened to the EGyptian army in 1967 !!?? what happened in 1973 is a miracle , no army can be recovered in that short for God Sake and all what you are doing is just trashing the greatest victory in the modern time
Another thing About Sadaat , from what you are saying I say that you are hinting that he was a traitor and let me ask you what do you know about the Sadaat's life beside making Peace with Israel so you can accuse him with that horrible accusation which its punishment in the Egyptian law during war is execution !!!??? I do not care about the Arab summits ,because it is well documented that the Syrian President asked by himself aid and believe me we got the documents on that
My dear Tunisian friend please do not believe everything the Al-Jazeera is saying and I recommend that you read the 1967 section here and than you can compare it with 1973 so you can tell me what is the meaning of defeat