I was right when I said there is something going on in Algeria and the Algerian regime is using the game to divert the people’s attention from something sinister as it is the habit in the third world countries.
I was right but I could never ever have imagined what that sinister thing is , it is beyond the usual hereditary scenario . Qatari Al Jazeera is reporting that an Algerian dissident has exposed an American-Algerian agreement to host temporary American bases in the Algerian territories.
Algerian political dissident Mohamed El-Arabi Zaiout claimed that the Algerian government used the game to reach for a final agreement with the Americans as they used to refuse hosting permanent bases. They had secret negotiations for months or even for years as the Americans wanted to use more than jails and torture in North Africa especially in the French influence territories.
Zaiot claims that the Algerian regime has three terms from its side in order to host the American army temporarily for God knows when :
1// The States should either support Algeria in the Western desert issue or at least take a neutral stand.
2//Algerian army would put its hands on the weapons the States has refused to sell to it before.
3// Washington would protect the army generals who are involved in war crimes during the civil war aka the war on terrorism from any accountability , these generals are scared to find themselves arrested one day in front of a western court for their war crimes.
I believe the third term if these claims are true is the most term for the Algerian army generals regime , this is all what they care for and this is what the Americans are bargaining with from the whole start.
The assumed base will be in Southern Algeria in the desert and before jumping in to the war on terrorism wagon you must know Algeria is from the top producers of oil in World not to mention its army is the second strongest army in North Africa and in the Arab region after the Egyptian Army.
The fact that the news came from Al Jazeera makes me wonder a lot because in the last crisis Al Jazeera took Algeria’s side all the time .
Back to the claims , well it is much easier and more logic to pass this agreement secretly without the knowledge of the public when all the focus is on a game that went wrong. It is much easier when you create to the public a pseudo enemy from a sports rival and turn in to a monster. I know some angry Algerians will come here and tell me not to speak because my regime is building some iron wall on our borders with Gaza ,we host the Israeli embassy ..etc I am not speaking about you , the people , I am speaking about the regime that is fooling you !! If we have democratic regimes in Egypt or in Algeria neither of this could happen.
I hope that these are just rumors because it will be a sad thing , it is enough to have the Gulf with its bases from the States , UK and France and also Libya with the so-called security CIA stations on our borders as I once heard and now Algeria !!
I've just written a post analysing Zitout's claim. I'd love to hear what you have to say about why Zitout's rumour could be baseless.
ReplyDeleteHere is the post: http://wp.me/PI57c-2x
What about the long established US Naval base in Hurghada?
ReplyDeleteHe or she who lives in glass houses cannot pelt others with stones.
And why have you not responded to my post on the crisis in Sudan-Egypt relations that Egypt's media caused in the aftermath of the Khartoum match?
Please stop spreading false rumors. You Egyptians are so good at it!
ReplyDeleteEast guys,
ReplyDeleteI don't think this is a proper way of discussing such news especially with the such professional and polite way Egyptian Chronicles is using.
@ sudanese observer glass eh dah?
ReplyDeletebesides the fact that your president is a WAR CRIMINAL wanted for high crimes in the hague, where do you come off calling a standard courtesy station (hurgada) a NAVAL BASE!
wanna talk naval bases lets look at qatar's official CENTCOM headquarters in the middle east. but of course 'Sudanese Pontificator' probably has a cousin that works for ALJAZEERA and wouldn't want to offend the hand that feeds him!
people talk about NILE/MENA being state owned but NO ONE EVER MENTIONS AlJAZEERA...sorry i went of topic zeinobia!
Please Z get over it. These claims about US bases in Algeria is nothing new (Actual every year some one comes up with that info). There is no US bases in Algeria and Algeria doesn't receive 2 billion dollars per year from US as one country does in NA. (by the way only Israel receives more of this money in the world).
ReplyDeleteSo now everytime something happens in Algeria, are you going to use it to explain your blindness at what happened in your country after football-match? I really thought that until now you would be more aware. I was wrong. It is now so clear!! All the egyptians I have spoken with have any doubts about the acts of Mubarak gov. You can blame one newspaper in Algeria, but in Egypt it was gov. That's crazy.
Are you sure that your gov doesn't oblige you to post those comments (as if between the lines of your so called just stand towards bloggers etc) or is it just you who wants to believe??
Even if they used the game to divert the attention from ONE issue,we used it to divert attention from MANY issues...unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteKrim: a) your English is terrible b) you make no sense c) you are the one who is blind to the problems in Algeria, while at least most Egyptians are aware of our problems and more important have more freedom to discuss them than the Algerians do. If you have any constructive reply to what Z simply reported (she did not make up the story) then go ahead and post them. Throwing issues like US aid to Egypt which for your info doesnt go to the ppl of Egypt mainly but goes back to Americans through contracting American firms and personnel to oversee the projects in Egypt & btw the ppl asked that we no longer receive this aid & Egypt can survive w/o (but of course a superficial person like yourself only knows little about the issues he throws in), does not lead to any constructive discussions, stick to the point of the post.
ReplyDeleteTo the Sudanese comment: Granted the way some of those who got attacked in your country used was not the most eloquent but that does not mean the there were no attacks, your own officials gave conflicting reports and statements based on which audience they were addressing so, while they admitted the attacks took place, the knives being bought, etc to us, they denied any thing to FIFA and complained from us in Algeria. Egypt respected your country & decided not to send special troops beforehand. Algerians disrespected your country by sending special forces, by buying weapons to be used in attacks in your own country and against ppl you are hosting. I'm afraid as dear as Sudan is to us, some Sudanese are very sensitive to any thing Egyptian and instead of admitting that our fans were insulted in their own country and that the Algerians insulted Sudan in so many ways they only choose to stick to a couple of angry statements made by ppl at a moment where they felt their life was threatened. As for the so-called Hurghada naval base, check your sources, its is well known EGYPT HAS NO US BASIS, for that you can look to Doha and many other Arab countries and as much as I disagree with our regime at least most of our dealings with Israel are in the open while ALL Arab countries deal with Israel on different levels but behind closed doors, just check who has regular Israeli students attending events (Doha) and who is the highest importer of good made in Israel (surprise KSA).
I don't know why I even reply to this message. But A, your english is so good that I might even try to imitate it in the future:
ReplyDelete"Throwing issues like US aid to Egypt which for your info doesnt go to the ppl of Egypt mainly but goes back to Americans through contracting American firms and personel to oversee projects in Egypt & btw the ppl asked that we no longer receive this aid & Egypt can survive w/o (but of course a superficial person like yourself only knows little about the issues he throws in), does not lead to any constructive discussions, stick to the point of the post".
That's a long sentence, don't forget your spelling and period next time. And for what constructive point of yours you want me to answer constructively?
"a) your english is terrible b) you make no sense c)you are the one who is blind"
Ok, I try.
a) I try to be more accurate with the mistakes next time
b) I try to make sense
c) I won't be blind anymore
Anonymous, I admire your constructiveness and power of expression!
Egyptian Ambassador Ahmed Al-Ghamrawi says it was a western zionist conspiracy hmmmm I must say that you at least don't blame da jooos or emericans.
ReplyDeleteLearn how to lose (a football match), it helps removing mistakes.
@ Pax
ReplyDeleteeh dah?
It is what it is.
besides the fact that your president is a WAR CRIMINAL wanted for high crimes in the hague,
What are 'high crimes' - I'm sure you mean war crimes.
Besides, talk about going off point...
What does that have to do with anything?
I could say that your President presides over a quasi one party state but that again would be off-point.
The
where do you come off calling a standard courtesy station (hurgada) a NAVAL BASE!
It has been listed as a Naval Base. Whether logistical in nature or not and even though it's smaller than Bahrain's.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/hurghada.htm
wanna talk naval bases lets look at qatar's official CENTCOM headquarters in the middle east.
What exactly is the issue at hand - as deduced from the original post?
If it's a between the lines criticism of Algeria selling its sovereignty and conscience to the US for material gain then Egypt has set the regional model of excellence in that since Camp David and the billion dollar annual aid and the QIZ...
That was the point I was trying to make when I said those in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.
but of course 'Sudanese Pontificator' probably has a cousin that works for ALJAZEERA and wouldn't want to offend the hand that feeds him!
?!
Can only be described as a delusional rant.
people talk about NILE/MENA being state owned but NO ONE EVER MENTIONS AlJAZEERA...sorry i went of topic zeinobia!
I definitely did not say anything about the nature of the media, whether state owned or otherwise.
This video was made by a group of Egyptians - what's your opinion on it?
http://sudaneseoptimist.wordpress.com/
'High crimes and misdemeanors is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution:'
ReplyDeletei guess you learn something new everyday 'wiki' before you fire next time sudi!
albashir makes the god father look like a priest! WAR crimes are just one facet of the indictment foisted on said criminal!
your little link plays with semantics and if you wanna call it a base in your angry little head then by all means do!
camp david had to do with EGYPTIAN BLOOD BEING SPILLED in the desert for decades! it was a just and noble peace! Don't go around comparing it to algeria's secret business deals!
IT WAS SAID ONCE, THAT GOLDA STATED THE ARABS WILL FIGHT DOWN TO THE LAST EGYPTIAN SOLDIER-------GUESS WHAT SHE WAS RIGHT! other than a few turbans in lebanon throwing fire crackers over the boarder, we've had PEACE FOR 30 YEARS!
now habibi here is why i brought up qatar, just like doha is the crux of all operations in the east. algeria is placed in a key position and distance (btwn doha and berlin) to become the african base of AFROCOM. until now every african nation has refused to house the division, and it is currently run out of europe and pretty soon it will be run out of algiers!
so back to 'glass eh dah' so your so called 'egyptian naval base' will never compare to centcom and the newly to be formed (inshla) AFROCM base in algeria.
nothing delusional, my aljazeera comment was to prove that many like to take CHEAP SHOTS at egypt without any hesitation! but think twice when critiquing our beloved gulf neighbors, whilst treating them with kid gloves to boot!
your personal attack.
'Can only be described as a delusional rant.'
i forgive your hostile comment, as we egyptians have been forgiving the people that wronged us for thousands of years!
after all we were one country once ruled under the same sovereign!
enjoy your day!
*before you fire of a geography lesson Tunisia and Libya declined!
ReplyDelete@ Pax
ReplyDelete'High crimes and misdemeanors is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution:'
What on Earth does the US Constitution have to do with ICC?
The US is not even party to the Rome Statute...
And 'foisted' isn't proper English word?
Have you read the ICC summons?
If you don't know your history Sudan was the 'only' Arab country to support Egypt through Camp David - for better or worse.
For worse probably as your former President knew Sudan and the Sudanese much better than your current one.
My issue isn't with Camp David, it's with the logical rationale behind defending Egypt fostering close ties, military and otherwise with the US - then condemning Algeria for doing the same.
I maintain that my analogy of those in glass houses not throwing bricks is legitimate.
after all we were one country once ruled under the same sovereign!
This is an Egyptian statement.
For your benefit - we view our shared modern history differently.
Muhammad Ali's conquest of Sudan in 1820 is viewed by the Sudanese as an illegal occupation, which led to the legendary Mahdist revolution which united Sudan and expelled the occupier.
The Mahdist revolution was a good bad example to the European powers' African colonies - so it had to be put down, so the Brits, tagged along the Egyptians and managed to re-occupy Sudan in a "British dominated" condominium - in spite of Egyptian pageantry that might suggest otherwise.
And in 1955, a Unionist (the Unionists wanted the Brits out and close ties with Egypt) dominated parliament, led by a Unionist Prime Minister...voted...in favour of...the independence of Sudan from both Britain and Egypt.
We know about Egypt but Egyptians know nothing about us.
What's worse - they continue to tolerate racist depictions of us, and other black Africans in their media.
http://sudaneseoptimist.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/racism-in-egyptian-movies/
Sudanese people like myself are not interested in moth-eaten slogans and sound bites.
the language and style of the charter document was mostly lifted from the US constitution!
ReplyDeletewhy do you keep widening that hole you are digging for yourself with stupid incidentals like A WORD!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/foist----guess i'm imparting to you many A word today! "He foisted his work on me."
well it seems i'm done entertaining your conversation, as you have taken it down a road of deep seated angst that i don't feel like entertaining at the moment.
TAKE HOME POINT---- YOU"VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT CAMP DAVID IS SACRED AND UNTOUCHABLE! THOSE BOYS DIED FOR THE ARAB WORLD NOT JUST EGYPT!
good day to you!
It's unfortunate that the young, free-thinking generation of Egyptians is refusing to aknowledge a serious problem (the media fuelled and educational chasm in Sudanese-Egyptian relations and the fact that the slogans couldn't be farther from the truth).
ReplyDeleteBrushing a problem under the rug will only cause it to fester and reemerge with a vengeance.
When the South secedes in 2011 and when the democratic transition is in full swing, don't lament the pragmatic and harsh line that Sudan's people and politicans will take vis-a-vis all Agreements signed with Egypt, including the 1959 Agreement.
@ Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWhat do you have to say about this - from the Egyptian Ambassador himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZVeJHnFTc
And these are te kinds of people whose testimonies you wholeheartedly accepted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew7py7XTVE4
The light scuffles that took place are due to 2 minibuses that were full of Egyptian 'celebrities' refusing to go through the securitised route - because they wanted to get some fast food...
Knives were bought - Sudanese folkloric knives from the traditional souk as souvenirs and the bottom line is that there were 'no' knife injuries.
To suggest that Egypt is capable of sending special forces into Sudan is delusional.
The reaction to that would a repition of the be the Mustafa Mahmoud massacre 10 times over, in Khartoum.
And the Egyptian government quickly redeemed itself by dispatching both the Foreign Minister and the Minister of Intelligence who both said that the match took place with 'no major incidents'.
Of course the Sudanese complained in Algeria and everywhere else because we were 'asked' to host the match - and we did so well - there were no incidents before the match and during it, and light scuffles afterwards.
There were no major injuries - according to the Medical Attache at the Egyptian Embassy in Khartoum.
Algeria sent some supporters in military planes because there is no functioning air connection between Algiers and Khartoum, as opposed to Cairo and Khartoum. And in spite of the commercial air connection between Cairo and Khartoum - Egypt sent 2 military plane loads of supporters to watch the match...
If the expectation was that Sudan would be biased or obtrusive in welcoming the Algerians by insisting that 10,000 Algerians get visas then the expectation was wrong.
A lot of Sudanese 'chose' to support Algeria, because it is their legitimate right to support the team they feel like supporting.
The issue is not one of sensitivity - no other country's media said the things that were said about us - not the Saudi media nor the UAE media nor the Libyan or Jordanian media...
You said peoples' lives were threatened. Was Amr Adib's life threatened?
And this issue is merely sympomatic of a deeper problem where Sudan and the Sudanese are depicted superfically and in a racist manner in Egypt's media and this is widely tolerated.
Egypt has lost a lot of goodwill in Sudan, so please, save us all the embarassment of calling us 'dear'.
And back to Israel - I think the number of Israelis who visit Egypt every year is far greater than the handful of students who go to Doha and by the way - that's no secret.
@ sudani
ReplyDeletehttp://www.africanews.com/site/list_message/23983?data%5Bsource%5D=rss#m23983
some of you hate us but look how loyal we egyptians are:
via africa new:
But Egypt said it will not host a France-Africa summit if Sudanese president Omar al-Bashir would not participate.
sudani you really need to let go of your hostility and look around you!
Please refer to me as 'Sudanese' if speaking in English.
ReplyDeleteسوداني would only be correct if used in an Arabic language context.
'Some of you hate us'
People don't 'hate' for no reason - some nations are prone to indoctrination and others feel wronged due to specific actions - which is the case of the Sudanese nation vis-a-vis the way Egypt's media treats us and our issues.
Foreign policy is conducted for the sake of 'interests' not 'loyalty'.
Egypt is the most vulnerable State in the Nile Basin and it is therefore a priority for the Egyptian government to be on good terms with anyone who rules Khartoum.
President Bashir represents the lesser of evils as far as Egypt is concerned as he seeks to reconcile Egyptian and Sudanese competing interests.
If you didn't know it, we have general elections in Sudan in April of next year and many of the opposition do not want to reconcile Sudanese and Egyptian competing interests - as shown by history and precedent.
Examples are:
The Umma Party - the last party to win Sudan's multi-party elections, which is based on the historical legacy of the Mahdist revolution which fought and expelled the Egyptian occupier.
The Sudan Peoples' Liberation Movement, many of whose members were educated in Cairo in an attempt to win them over. Currently in power these Egypt educated Southerners have done 'absolutely nothing' to further Egyptian interests in South Sudan, and they will be the rulers of an independent South Sudan in the future.
The Eastern Front, whose leader, the 5th highest official according to the Interim Constitution, Musa Muhammad Ahmad tried to visit occupied Halaib last week. The Egyptian border patrol left the gates shut and abandoned their posts, he was stranded at the border but he managed to speak to Sudanese troops garrissoned / imprisoned in Halaib and to congratulate them on Eid al Adha.
The Darfur Movements, who Egypt has attempted to engage and co-opt and who insisted on Qatari, as opposed to Egyptian mediation, due to long cumbersome historical legacy of Egyptian involvement in Sudanese affairs.
The Islamists - the name says it all.
The ones who need to look into themselves, and not around them, are the Egyptians who tolerate the misrepresentation of their media for more than 50 years running, of anything that is concerned with Sudan, or the Sudanese.
Many non-politicised Sudanese were and are still deeply offended by the way the Egyptian media berated and denigrated Sudan after the 2012 football qualifier.
Their offense is only being compounded by the nonchalant and defensive stance of many Egyptians, when they could be taking a positive and proactive role in patching up differences, addressing and recognising problems and looking forward to respectful engagement in the future.
For the benefit of all and hopefully a reason for supporters of Amr Adeeb to rethink their positions:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/12/03/the_soccer_wars