BBC and AOL News are speaking about the dilemma facing the current officials in Iraq concerning the Holy Quran allegedly written by the blood of Saddam Hussein. Allegedly this Holy Quran was written by 27 liters of Saddam’s blood. “Hard to believe it actually”
The Iraqi officials do not know what to do with it , will they show it or will they hide it !!?? Will they destroy it or will they keep it !!?
With my all due respect to all Saddam’s supporters who have exceeded since his execution , writing the Holy Quran book in blood is a desecration and this book shows you how hypocrite the religious men were at the Saddam era to approve that public desecration and considered it as a signal of devotion. I believe the Al Azhar should have an opinion in the destiny of that book from the theological point of view.
Yes it is a desecration of the Quran.
ReplyDeleteThe point you make about how the religious authorities bowed to the regime's political will is interesting - one could make the same allegation regarding Al-Azhar itself...
What effect would Al-Azhar's edict have on the issue?
Who would ask Al-Azhar for an opinion?
And on what premise would it be made?
It seems that Egyptians regard Al-Azhar with a lot more reverence and importance than the rest of the Muslim World.
Al-Azhar has no influence beyond Egypt - door alifta' in respective States come up with their own edicts - the world has globalised, expanded and moved on...
@ Sudanese Observer your hate to Egypt makes you
ReplyDeleteAl Azhar fortunately has influence beyond Egypt whether you agree with it or not , whether you agree with the Egyptian regime or not
If it was insignificant why the EU and the U.S politicians are keen of establishing bridges with Al Azhar
If it was not insignificant , why all the Islamic countries send their students to learn at its universities , why its Sheikh is highly received through out the Islamic world.
Yes there is no a central religious authority in Islam but for centuries ago and for centuries coming Al Azhar will still be considered centers for Sunni Muslim world
Do not make your hate to everything Egyptian make you bias.
So the influence of the Azhar in the Islamic world is the extent to which the US and EU and even Sarkozy reaches out to it? . )
ReplyDeleteFYI Arabic and fiqh are taught in many venerable institutions from Madina to Yemen to Mauritania and beyond.
More African students study in Sudan than in alazhar and those who studied there complained about ... you guessed it the racism and strange concept of urban modernity in Cairo.
The sheikh of alazhar visits where? Everywhere but Sudan...
So how or why is the azhar still influential?
Emotions have nothing to do with it but Sudais is better known and more influential than the sheikh of alazhar.
@Sudanese Observer: dnt talk about issues you know nothing about, stick to your Egypt ruined Sudan posts instead. Btw, I take it you are upset about the upcoming move of El Hadary to play in Sudan right?!
ReplyDeleteالرجاء من الجميع الحفاظ على اللياقه . مؤسسة الازهر بالرغم من غضه النظر عن ممارسات النظام يبقى له نفوذه - رغم بعض التراجع-فى كثير من البلاد الاسلاميه و هذه ليست شيزوفونيه كونى مصرى ، فانا مسلم اولا - و الازهر لا يختزل فى الاداره او بعض من يقبلون الضغط سوء المحلى او حتى الخارجى ، الازهر يبقى جامعه يجب ان يفتخر بها كل مسلم و لا يصح ابدا ان يكون الازهر معترك فى حوار صفصاطى بين س ودانى و مصرى فهو اسمى من ذلك بكثير . و اذا اردنا النقاش حوله او نقده بشكل بناء فيجب الابتعاد نهائيا عن النزاعات الوطنيه الجوفاء.
ReplyDeleteالازهر كان له دور دائما ايجابى فى الدول الغربيه وخاصة الايوروبيه من حيث التقريب بين الشعوب بخلاف دياناتها و ذلك بلا شك يعود لمنهجه المعتدل و المنفتح و قد تراجع هذا الدور -اى فى اوروبا- الى حد كبير و للاسف تاركا المجال لافكار متطرفه _ قد تنسب نفسها للسلف الصالح_ و هو منها براء و كونها تيارات مدعوما بشكل كبير من بعض الانظمه النفطيه المدعيه بالاسلام ، فهى رسخت نظرة الغرب الدنيه الى الاسلام و المسلمين وهى الكارهه بطبيعة الحال للاسلام و تعيش منذ قرون فى عقده نفسيه ووهم ان غاية الاسلام هو قهر اوروبا المسيحيه - حتى و لم تعد مسيحيه بالمفهوم القديم مع الاشاره ان كلا من بريطانيا و اليونان و مالطا لهم وضع خاص مع السلطه الكنسيه بالرغم من انظمتهم العلمانيه .
الى الاخ الحبيب اوبزيرفر - ان فى روياتك من ان بعض دارسي الازهر يذهبون الى دول اخرى هربا من العنصريه به افتراء شديد يا اخى.
و انا من من يقرون ببعض مظاهر العنصريه فى مجتمعنا و لكنها ابدا ما مست الازهر و الازهر منها براء و ابدا لا ولن يعامل اى دارس باى شكل من العنصريه
الومضوع فى دراسه فى دول اخري مثل اليمن و سوريا و السودان والمغرب و تونس ل ه اسباب اخري لا تمت بصله بنفوذ الازهر من عدمه- و الجامعات الاسلاميه فى الدول العربيه لا تنظر الى الامور بالافق القطري الضيق بل ه -ى تنسق فيما بينهاو كثير من المناهج فى علوم الشريعه متفق عليها و تكاد تكون متطابقه .
ان اغلب من ياتون لدراسة الفقه و علوم الدين و اللغه ياتوم فى منح دراسيه و ليس على نفقاتهم الخاص و قد تصل النسبه الى ٩٠٪ و لكن لن اجزم لان ليس لى علم بالتحديد و لكنا لن تقل عن ٨٠٪ و هنا ليس فيما يخص الازهر فقط بل فى كافة الدول العربيه.
اغلب هذه المنح تكون من الدول اما من الحكومات او من بعض المؤسسات الخاصه المحليه )خصيصا فى شمال اميركا و بريطانيا و اليابان( حيث لا يوجد دعمةحكومى من هذه الدول للدراسات الدينيه بشكل عام و تتحملها الجمعيات الاسلاميه فى هذه الدول. تقوم هذه الدول و جمعياتها بالتنسيق مع جامعاتنا الاسلاميه - بما يتناسب مع ميزانيتها و تكلفه الاقامه و الحصص المبرمه سلفاالخ و فى بعض الحالات من النوابغ و المتفوقين و الدول الفقيره يتحمل الازهر نفقاتهم - فالازهر و رغم كل ما قد نتخلف عليه لم يكن سوى رسالة تنوير و ليس لغرض التربح. و فى بعض الحالات - و هى حالات ليست بالقليله- يفضل بعض الدارسون - ان يكمل الدراسه فى دوله اخري حتى و لو على نفقته الخاصه و جلهم يكونوا من طلبة الدراسات العليا كالماجيستير و قد تناقشت مع الكثير منهم - فيما يخص الازهر و من جنسيات عديده من نيجيرا و غانا و اندونيسا و ماليزيا و من دول غربيه كالمانيا و كندا - منهم من هم من اصول افريقيه ايضا و لم اسمع ابدا من احد اى شكوى من سوء معامله بل على العكس تماماو لعلك تضحك لو علمت سبب بروؤهم عن المنحه هو صعوبة الدراسه فى الازهر و هى شكوى متككره من طلبة جنوب شرق اسيا و الخوف من الرسوب المتكرر فالبعض يذهب الى اليمن و البعض الى السودان - وهذا ليس معيبا حتى لا افهم بشكل خاطئ و لكن تخلتف ف ى واضعى الامتحانات و مناقشة الدراسات و حتى احيانا ياتى بعض الدارسين من سوريا الى مصر فما قد يصعب هماك يكون اسهل هنا و العكس صحيج و ه م فى
النهايه يودون انهاء دراستهم و العوده الى اوطانهم لاستكمال وظ ائفهم او للتعين.
ارجو اننى قد اوضحت الصوره و الرجاء مجددا عدم اقحام الجامعات الاسلاميه -اي كانت فى تعليقات قطريه محمومه تسود فيها العاطفه على العقل
و ونبى بلاش الكوره خالص لحسن دى كارثه لوحدها
الأزهر مؤسسة دينية مرموقة نحترمها و نحترم تاريخها كاحدى مصادر الاشعاع الحضاري الاسلامي
ReplyDeleteمع كل ذلك لا توجد قدسية للأزهر بالنسبة لنا فهي ليست مهبط وحي أو مكان للتعبد بشعيرة أو قبلة مقدسة
نتفهم - و ان كنا لا نستصيغ غلو الكثير من المصريين في تقييم كل ما هو مصري و هذا يشمل الأزهر
افريقيا فيها أكبر عدد مسلمي كل قارات العالم نسبيا - و الأزهر ليست المؤسسة الأولى للارشاد في افريقيا
العنصرية ليست عنصرية الأزهر و منتسبيها و لكن عنصرية المجتمع القاهري و تمدنه الذي لم يعجب الكثير من معارفي الشرق آسياويين و الأفارقة - و قد قالوا أن هنالك تفضيل للأوربي و الأمريكي المسلم و حتى دلائلكم لأهمية الأزهر في العالم الاسلامي أتت من بوابة الغرب
الشعور بالقبول الشعبي و الثقافي عنصر هام لطلبة علم اللغة العربية و الفقه و حجة صعوبة المنهاج العلمي للأزهر على نظرائه من الجامعات و المعاهد يجب أن يؤكد بالأدلة فالكثير من خريخي الجامعات الأخرى متفوقون
نحترم الأزهر و لكننا نقيم تأثيره بأنه محدود - يراه المصريون شاسع و نراه متواضع
@Sudanese Observer: no one is talking about Al Azhar having a holy-like status, as Muslims we do not have that. Also, Asia and not Africa has the highest number of Muslims. Also, the position of Al Azhar doesnt mean there are no other successful figures graduating elsewhere, why is it always this either or line of thinking?!!
ReplyDeleteAgain, you are assuming we defend Al Azhar bec its in Egypt while its clear that none of us commenting perceive Al Azhar as a purely Egyptian institution. Like all institutions it has its negative aspects but whether you like it or not it is highly regarded by Muslims and considered the highest authority for Sunni Muslims and by non-Muslims writing on Muslim affairs or commenting on them or interested in them. Also, the number of foreign students studying in Al Azhar and the number of requests and sizes of Al Azhar mission in other countries is the true testament to its position. You do not have these numbers so, what are the basis of these statements you are making?
Last but not least, the success and strength of Al Azhar and all other muslim institutions in the end depends on our own strength as Muslims and we all know our sad realities. Despite having several muslim countries swimming in money and despite having muslim investments all around, no one who own them seems to be caring to use them to defend and reinforce Muslim affairs.
Anonymous - 'in proportionate terms' - as a percentage of the total - Africa has a higher percentage of Muslims than any other continent...
ReplyDeleteAnd the number of African students who study in Sudan and Saudi Arabia both eclipse the number who study in Al-Azhar and this was in statistics provided by the Islamic Da'wah Organisation which is headed by former Sudanese President Suwaraldahab.
One of Al-Imam Al-Mahdi's early grievances against the Azhar was that it acquiesced to foreign domination and eventually sanctioned the fight of the colonisers against him...
I am afraid Al-Azhar is not the highest authority for Sunni Muslims - the Islamic Council which is based in Makkah is.
Various Sunni Muslims follow a number of unaffiliated academic and juristic scholars and Muslim communities have their door iftaa' which they follow - not Al-Azhar.
Al-Azhar is respected but not considered to be the highest authority in Sudan or the Gulf.
Unfortunately a number of of politically charged edicts have harmed the reputation of the Azhar particularly with regards to the banning of the hijab in France and Sarkozy's visit as the then Interior Minister to Al-Azhar.
You might not perceive Al-Azhar to be a purely Egyptian institution but it is, in all effect just that and this is how the rest of us perceive it.
You cannot deny the fact that many Egyptians 'do' implicitly view Al-Azhar as a tool reflecting Egyptian historical leadership - like those who have ridiculously suggested that Al-Azhar should 'teach' the peoples in the Upper Nile so they stop challenging Egypt's position in the Nile Basin...
The world has globalised and moved on and Islamic communities all over the world are prospering and many people are embracing Islam and Al-Azhar is far detached from this.
Consider this as my last comment in that discussion about Al Azhar , my dear as Sunni Muslim there is no higher authority for us.
ReplyDeleteYou are entitled to your own point of view and we are entitled to our own point of view.
You hate everything Egyptian , in fact you hate Egypt "Do not deny it" but unfortunately you have to live with the fact that we are not going anywhere :)
If I can jump in here. I am Egyptian, but I sense some hidden true drive behind Sudanese Observer comments. There is undeniable trace (more or less) of racism (oops! the r-word) in Egyptian culture. I would venture to guess that(s)he is not an Egypt-hater, as Z suggests. I would love for Z to write a post on this piece of benign dirty-laundry in our closet. It may heal many wounds to our brothers & sisters to the south. My apologies to Zeinobia if I am way off topic heere, and to S.O. if I missread some of what you are trying to say.
ReplyDeleteI do not hate everything Egyptian and making emotionally charged allegations is the defence of the cop-out - it is *exactly* like being called 'Anti-Semitic' when one criticises certain things that Israel does.
ReplyDeleteHow very ironic...
Don't criticise it when anyone calls yourself or any Arab 'Anti-Semitic' from now on.
Will you deny that you and others have delusions of grandeur regarding Egypt?
The issue is not whether anything or anyone was going to disappear or not - we are far more discursively mature than that - we recognise the rights of people to self-determination and do not exercise double-standards...
The issue is an 'evaluation' of the 'influence' of Al-Azhar - which we believe as being extremely limited.
Off the cuff statements hold no water - as an Egyptian Sunni Muslim there is no higher authority for you but Al-Azhar is not a Holy institution for me and other non-Egyptian Muslims and as such it does not occupy a hierarchical position atop any religious pyramid like Al-Najaf Al-Ashraf or Qom for the Shia...
I know you aren't going anywhere I just hope some of you find the courage to engage the other and accept their views and not cop-out or exercise double-standards.
We - the peoples of North and South Sudan and Ethiopia and the African Nile Basin are also...going no where.
Hey..far from criticizing..I will wear my anti-semitic badge with honor!
ReplyDelete@Sudanese Observer:
ReplyDeleteId say read your recommendations to your self first. You made a statement about Al Azhar and we disagreed w it so, we must be doing that in ur mind bec we have feelings of false grandeur or wtever. Al Azhar is a reflection of Sunni Muslims, if we are strong it will be strong.
Main issue with all Sudanese comments here is the stress on labels on every label, which label their country has, which label the ppl of their country will bear, which label is better, which label Al Azhar has ect.
Last but not least, you are only Sudanese soon to be either Southern or Northern, so, I recommend you guys stop talking on behalf of others like Ethiopians ect.
Do you know whether I'm part Ethiopian or not?
ReplyDeleteDon't many Egyptians like to ignorantly talk of 'Egypt and Sudan' as a unit - although this has thankfully decreased?
The real 'brotherhood' - one in which there is no denigration or racism is the one between the peoples of Sudan (both North and South) and Ethiopia.
Their gains are our gains and vice-versa.
We claim that Al-Azhar is an Egyptian institution which it administratively, financially and otherwise 'is'.
Al-Azhar is but 'one' reflection of Sunni Islam - there are others.
There seems to be a common misconception about USAID. It's not in billions and hasn't been for years now. Don't understand why everyone insists on reciting numbers dating back to the 80's.
ReplyDeleteUSAid is practically peanuts now. The regime is an ally of the U.S.[a regional partner of UKUSA and Mubaraks(shithead and sons] are members of the Bilderberg group to put it bluntly], this has nothing to do with financial AID.
At a time, Egypt was second only to Israel when it comes to U.S. finanical Aid, nowadays I doubt if it even makes the top 10 recipient countries.
Military Aid is another thing, however that is a binding agreement between the U.S and Egypt, [$ 600-800 million per annum] , a fraction of what Israel and Colombia receive. I wouldn't even regard it as an Aid in exchange for military services, not to mention a free pass in the Suez Canal for U.S war vessels... it's very complicated and entwined agreements and protocols and if anything the U.S probably owes us money.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=23282
http://news.egypt.com/en/2010080412164/news/world/report-us-cuts-economic-aid-to-egypt.html
short
http://bit.ly/hsuFeH
http://bit.ly/bIb7Iw
Zeinobia, My last comment belongs there:
ReplyDeletehttp://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2010/12/because-we-do-not-learn-from-our.html
can you please add it under above topic not this one..thanks
n.b no need to add this as a comment
Dear Dudu , I can't add it myself , you can copy and paste it at the post yourself
ReplyDelete