Wednesday, May 17, 2006

The Minorities report in Egypt : The Bahais "updates : No more Baha'i in the religion field"

As I expected the Baha'is took nothing and returned back to the zero point
Check this out ,it is mentioned in every newspaper today in the front page From Arab Times
In English translation
it says the following :
The high administrative court in the State council "very high supreme court in Egypt has cancelled the verdict that gave the right to the Baha'i religion followers in Egypt to include their religion in the field religion in the official documents
The reasons are the following :
  1. in 2004 , as I mentioned here the High supreme court announced the official religions of the Egyptian State are Islam,Christianity and Judaism and this mentioned in the amendment number 46 and thus the previous verdict in the favor of the Bahai's is considered against the constitution
  2. Bahai'sm is considered a deviation from the State system and danger on it
  3. In 1975, the constitutional court ordered the close of the Bahai's temples and thus it can't be broke up
The case against the interior ministry and the Civil registry that was held by the Bahai 's couple who live in Oman by the way ,was a smart more to go around the laws and constitution as mentioning the Bahai'sm in the religion field is a an official confession from the Egyptian State by it
well they thought they are smart ,but as we say in Egypt well those who came before them would have been smarter !!??
Don't mess with the law in Egypt or the constitution !!
Interesting fact about the Bahai's in Egypt , they all got non Egyptian passports !!
The fact is finished


  1. Egypt is signatory of the Declaration of Human Rights where it is stated that "everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion". That same document states that "All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.".

    Therefore, denying anyone an official document due to religious reasons is denying a basic human right. I would not be proud if my government were doing something like that.

    So many States and Rulers have tried to discriminate or persecute several social groups (religious minorities, ethnical groups, social strata, professional groups, etc). But what was the benefit of that? What happened to them? How do historians describe them?

    As to Egyptian Baha'is using foreign passports, that reminds me the dark days of the Portuguese dictatorship, when so citizens whose civil rights were denied had to travel with foreign passports. And in those days, the authorities use to tell them: "Don't mess with the law in our country!"

  2. I am not sure where do you get your "facts" from. Egyptian Baha'is have foreign passports? Tell me which country is giving away citizenship to Egyptians whether Baha'is or not? Did you get that from the lawyer on Dream show who was shouting "they have foreign passports" in a crazy way (along with weird cockroach comments and God knows what)? The Baha'i man on Dream has an Egyptian passport as he kept on saying, but that lawyer was too loud that he couldn't even hear himself.

    If you want facts, let me give you facts:

    - There is no "religion" entry in passports, so the issue doesn't apply here as it does for IDs
    - I have an old torn ID that is missing a part from my grandfather's name so it's useless. (Torn delightfully in a police station by a stupid clerck who stapled it to other documents).
    - I can't use this ID to issue a passport due to its missing information.
    - No one in the vital records is willing to help in giving me any document to prove my identity. They only say "go get a computerized ID" and (quoting) "enta Baha'i malaksh 3andena 7aga". I wonder who is bending whose arm, as it was nicely mentioned on orbit that the Baha'is are bending the government arm.
    - I've been stuck for more than 8 years without a passport and without a way to travel and I still didn't hear of that magic country that gives away foreign passports to Baha'is. And even if I do, I want an Egyptian passport as I am an Egyptian citizen.
    - Due to not having an ID I'm unable to buy property, take loans from banks or prove my identity in government offices.
    - I spent one year trying to issue a birth certificate for my daughter and during every day of which the vital records people insisted on registering her as christian when she is not. I asked them to write "other religion" or leave it blank and they refused.

    Every Baha'i person in this country is going through even much more troubles than me. We suffer on daily basis due to this situation. And we are still patient and still obeying the laws of our country. But obeying the law doesn't mean I can't demand to change it if it's unjust. If the law allows only the followers of three religions to have full civil rights then it is unjust. If the constitution itself says that, then it needs to be amended.

    This whole situation is based on wrong assumptions that everyone is taking as "facts". If only you people get your facts checked first.

    And by the way, here is an excellent blog in reply to the "facts" that you all talk about.

  3. @Marco and George ,well hard luck guys
    @Egyptian Bahai , You always say that you suffer yet in the newspapers and TV you don't suffer alot , most of you seems to be well educated "not like in Iran " and most of you are wealthy enough to make a lawyer like Labib Mowad defends your case
    what are complaining from is your need from the Egyptian State to admit that there is a religion called Bahai' and I am afriad this won't happen sooner or later

  4. there shouldnt be any religious identification in documents to start with! who cares if you are muslim , bahai or christian?? we are all human beings , no one should be denied their rights based on their religion. the issue is not about the egyptian goverment recognizing officially the bahai religion, but rather that it is descriminating those citizens based on their religious beliefs, and that is just wrong.
    i guess you would be ok if the united states didnt recognize islam, and oblige muslims to identify themselfes as christian?

  5. By different reasons Islam Faith didn't reach Europe in the first centuries A.H..It was even expeled from Spain and Portugal.
    As a matter of fact, there are a few prejudicies in the West against Islam.
    But when a western (or anyone else) accept Bahá'u'lláh, The founder of Bahá'í Faith, immediatly recognizes Muhammad like a Messenger of The Almighty.
    The Muslims should understand this.
    Something else, The Qur'an says The Day of God will return in One Thousand Years. We can't deny The Qur'an.

  6. Dear Zeinboia

    I'm afraid you're starting to make no sense. I got a vibe from you when i came across your blog that you know what you're talking about. And even in your last post when you mentioned fiction as facts i gave you the benefit of doubt that maybe you didn't know. But it seems like you are unwilling to know.

    What does money have to do with suffering from not getting basic civil rights? The dentist on the show had both his kids expelled from school because he couldn't issue birth certificates for them, which is needed to be admitted in any school. No other school accepted them for the same reason. What will his money do in such a case?

    Do not look at the Baha'is as one secluded group that live together and share funds. This would be the same as saying "Egyptians are not poor, look at Mohamed Nossair or Naguib Sawiras". Baha'is in Egypt come from different backgrounds. We have poor people among us and we have rich people. We don't have "filthy rich" people though (oh the suffering). They are all well educated as you might have noticed because education is obligatory in the Baha'i teachings whether you're poor or rich.

    I'm still trying to get any sensible input from you so i will ask you a question and see your answer. And by sensible I don't mean agreeing with me, but something that makes "sense". Not random gloating and off-the-mark comments.

    Imagine you are a Baha'i (just for the sake of the argument, imagine), you want to issue an ID and you're asked to choose one of three religions that you don't follow to be written in your document. What would you do?

    Or maybe you can answer this: Imagine that you do not have an ID or a passport, when you get married your marriage is not legal, when you have a baby you can't have a birth certificate for him/her, that's beside the trouble of proving that it's a legit baby since you don't have a valid marriage certificate, you can't get them into a school, you get stopped by police in the street and you have no ID so they take you with them, you can't get a job (no ID, military paper if you are a man) and when you die (alf ba3d el shar 3aleeky) no one can issue a death certificate for you. Oh and with all that you have all the money that all the Baha'is have. What will your life be like?


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